Chris Oliveros 0:12
Even here in Canada, I think many people could have learned more from graphic novels in general. Because, and don't, don't feel bad about it. Because here's a funny story, like not many people, even Canada No, no about the things I covered in my book. So that's the thing, I think people, like, outside of Canada might think that I'm sort of like talking about some secret Canadian thing that only Canadians know about. But, in fact, a lot of this stuff is is really completely unknown. And, you know, I guess that's sort of something against the education system. But it's also I mean, it hasn't really been written about too. It's been written about to some degree, but not in a great, great deal. So that's something against publishing as well. It's something against journalism. It's actually kind of remarkable that sort of like, such an important part of something that really shook Canada has really not been covered to like any great length. It's not just
Brian Heater 1:22
interesting from a historical perspective, but it's obviously very narratively compelling. It's the kind of thing you think that, you know, there would have been some, some big film about or what's your sense of why it just hasn't gotten out there that way.
Chris Oliveros 1:36
The thing is, so this group, the the FL Q, which is, it was it was a separatist group. But to distinguish it, it was sort of separate separatism through by means of violence. So, there's sort of two periods of this group, there's sort of this better known version in 1970, where they actually kidnap politicians and one one was killed. So there's that. And that's kind of like a better known version. And there actually have been, like, some film adaptations in Canada about it. Not many, but other adaptations. And that was going to be the book I was originally going to do when I started this, because I knew about it. I knew a little bit about what happened before. But as soon as I started doing research about the earlier period, I was flabbergasted by what by what I was learning, and then I and then I realized pretty quickly that this is it, this is the book, there's going to be a book too. And I will do like this later period, and 1970. But for now, I just had to cover that 1960s 1960s period, because it really, it really is an unknown, unknown. Much of it is not unknown,
Brian Heater 2:58
that moment, when you realize that, you know, this is going to be multiple books that are going to take, you know, multiple years of your life. Obviously, you've got a lot of experience from the publishing side of things. Well,
Chris Oliveros 3:09
I mean, on a practical level, like I'm getting older, so there's, there's no guarantee I'll be alive.
Brian Heater 3:16
This is such a graphic cartoonists. anybody over the age of like 20 is like.
Chris Oliveros 3:25
Yeah, I mean, no, seriously wondering, like, I mean, I'm, I'm 57. So like, there's no guarantee I'm going to be around in like in, you know, six or seven years, which is least how long it's going to take me to finish this next one. But yeah, so there was an issue, there was an issue. I mean, on the, on the other hand, like this, this second and last book, like what happens in the second book is also like, completely fascinating. So I'm really like, excited to to start working in that full time. I've sort of done the draft of it, and so on. So that part I'm really looking forward to. And like I said, I hope, I hope I can finish it without like, you know,
Brian Heater 4:08
without keeling over on your drawing desk. You alluded to this at the end, but anytime you're writing any piece of history, certain things are gonna have to be condensed and changed. And you, you mentioned a few of the things that for various reasons, didn't make it into this book, I'm sure. I'm sure when you had the realization that you wanted to cover the earlier time period, you were wondering whether it was something that you could fit into a single volume,
Chris Oliveros 4:36
I knew pretty much that I could fit it into a single volume, because it basically covers three periods of the FL Q. The crazy thing is is that there are these different groups that wanted to overthrow the Canadian government
Brian Heater 4:51
is the 60s man.
Chris Oliveros 4:54
Yeah, so they were all unconnected, so like one group, and they didn't know each other too. So like one group, we would have their kind of haphazard, bumbling plan to do do something. And then they would get arrested and thrown in jail. And then and then a year later another group would come along, and then they would try their own version. And they would get addressed and thrown in jail. And then like, then you'd have a third group. And the thing that tied them together other than their, their desire to overthrow the Canadian government was that they were all pretty bumbling in their, in their in their methods. Well the other thing that tied them together actually is that they were fighting on behalf of Quebec because they Quebec is a French speaking province in in Canada. And so they believed that the colonizers that were the English, represented by Canada. So initially, they started to, you know, attack symbols of the colonizers which were basically federal government buildings, like, you know, Army, like armories, and so on which were run by the federal government. And then the second, then you'd have this new world, like pretty crazy stuff, then you'd have like the second group, where the guy actually wanted to form his own army. And he literally set up guerrilla army training camp deep in the woods. And he really expected he expected to attract like, hundreds, if not 1000s of soldiers. But all he could he could round up was 12. Guys. And then you also had, they were so ill equipped. Like, I mean, first of all, they didn't have if you have an army, you need to like their basic things, you have to have food, right, you have to feed people. And so they didn't have enough food, the number of supplies, but they didn't have enough weapons, either. They barely had any weapons. So they had their idea was to rob a gun store, right? Because that's where all the guns are in the gun store. And they were just going to, like, load up the trunk. And, and that was like, they probably would have, they probably would have to make a few trips to the gun store. Right? Like if you reload the trunk? You can you can do it all in one shot. So I don't think they really thought it in terms of long term plans. Yeah, so it was just like one bumbling thing after another. And I'm not spoiling anything here because it's kind of obvious what would happen. But you rob a gun store with people who are poorly trained and things will go wrong. And two employees of that store were shot and killed by accident.
Brian Heater 7:46
It is one of the more cinematic moments of the book like that, that element of it specifically where one of the employees is shot by the police.
Chris Oliveros 7:58
Right, right, because it's a gun store. So one of the employees, like pulled a gun from off of the wall or from a drawer or something. And of course, chased Chase, the people were robbing the gun store. They were wearing military fatigues, by the way. Right? Right. Yes, they actually had this is the other thing they they didn't have enough money to actually. So their own costumes, sorry, costumes, military fatigues and
Brian Heater 8:25
forms but I think I'll be appropriate. Yes, incense.
Chris Oliveros 8:29
Right. So they had that at least they had their uniforms. And but yeah, as you said, so the police saw this guy with a gun. And they naturally assumed Well, that's that guy's the robber. So before he could even say anything, like, Stop, don't don't shoot and then the police basically shot and killed him.
Brian Heater 8:51
One of the things you said really jumped out at me this idea that the English are colonizers because it's obvious from the book and and and I think, you know, good points are made as far as French speaking residents of Quebec feeling like second class citizens, but there really was a colonizing problem in Canada. And the same way there was here. It's, it's, you know, it's it's very strange to be a descendant of these of these French settlers and consider someone else to be a colonizer of you.
Chris Oliveros 9:24
Yeah, it's, it is a funny thing, because of course, and people at the time would not have seen it that way. Right? Because people just didn't talk about, you know, Native rights and so on. But, I mean, the essentially, you had a dispute between two colonizers because in Canada, there were there were two colonizers under the English and the French. And so so the English more or less conquered the French. So the French in Quebec actually had pretty terrible things were terrible for the French and Quebec. I mean, I won't get into so many details here. but it wasn't. Some of it was due to the, to the English in Canada. But there were a lot of other factors like the, the Catholic Church were running things in Quebec and they run, they ran the education system and it was terrible, terrible for French speaking people Quebec, they had almost no access to university, they were sort of streamlined into factory jobs. And they had and as a result, they earn like half the amount of their English speaking counterparts. So there was there was a tremendous poverty among French people speaking people in Quebec, right up until the right through the 1960s. So it took it took a while. So you could sort of understand like, I could sympathize with what the LCL Qi want to do that wanting to overturn this, right? Things were pretty bad for French speaking people. And so the FAQ were right I sympathize with their with their desire to want to change things is because things were so terrible for for French speaking people. It just the way they FAQ went about it was was so was such a disaster.
Brian Heater 11:15
I honestly can't tell from reading the book, what side you come out on, but I guess value of a very least, property destruction, you know, when it comes to attempting to liberate yourself, but then then there's the extra level of being very bad at that as well.
Chris Oliveros 11:30
Yeah. Right. Right. And the thing is, I mean, I'm by no means an expert in unlike other revolutionary movements, I have read about others, but others, there are some there are some similarities, that whole bumbling aspect, it seems like almost every other movement at that time in the 1960s other other liberation movements had similar issues, like probably the the closest example, using American reference, whether it would be the exactly the Weather Underground, where, where in 1970, you had three members of the the Weather Underground, who basically accidentally got themselves killed, because they were manufacturing bombs in this Greenwich Village. apart what it was a house essentially that the pair parents of one member's own, and the parents didn't know that there. There were their underground friends were hiding out there. And so they got themselves killed, because they were they were just manufacturing bombs. And so three people, three of them were killed, and to barely escaped with their lives. So you do you do have this, this, this sense of this haphazard mess. And then the other funny story about that Greenwich Village bombing was that, again, it's so many like haphazard connections here. But does the actor Dustin Hoffman happen to be a neighbor? Like literally Lee he lives next door. There's actually photos online. So if anyone listened to it, you can look online if you type in Dustin Hoffman Weather Underground. This is Dustin Hoffman is running out of his house. I think he's carrying something like a painting. He's still like saving a painting from his wall. And, and with all this smoke coming out, like being behind him. And somehow that one building completely collapsed. His building seemed to be okay, but he got out. Just to be safe, of course,
Brian Heater 13:45
was this part of your extended research?
Chris Oliveros 13:47
Yeah, I mean, I did. I did, actually, you know, read read about other other movements just to try to get a sense of what else was happening in the world. There are several other movements in, in South America that had seemed to have this, this issue. In fact, the FLK was, was influenced by one movement in Brazil. Who did political killed kidnappings. So yeah, it definitely was of the time. Yeah,
Brian Heater 14:16
it makes sense, right? I mean, these aren't professionals we're talking about and right. Certainly the I'm gonna say men, because it's almost exclusively men. There's, yeah, there's an unfortunate wife who really get screwed. Yes, yes. But it's just guys, it's, you know, it's white collar guys just doing making bombs after
Chris Oliveros 14:36
work. Yeah, exactly. And in many cases, this cannot be the case with other movements in the world. But definitely was the case with the FL Q, where a lot of the members were, were actually teenagers. Were like, sometimes they would recruit teenagers as young as 16. So like one incident in my book, I have Then recruiting a 16 year old, and they literally pick him up at like high school, his high school lunch hour. So like in between classes, his mission is to plant a bomb in a factory. Again, how could that not go wrong? Right? But, but it does it does go wrong,
Brian Heater 15:21
it seems clear to me that they weren't trying to kill people, there's still ways you can account for wrong place wrong time.
Chris Oliveros 15:28
Yeah, that's the other thing too, that like, the other difference between revolutionary movements of that era was that for the most part, their intention was not to kill people was sort of the which is kind of hard to sort of grasp, because if you're using like guns and bombs, how could you not want to kill people
Brian Heater 15:47
kill multiple people in the process? Right? Yeah.
Chris Oliveros 15:50
So essentially, for them, like it was always, it was more of a symbol. So the bombing would be a symbol against against a target, like an armory that would have, you know, symbols and so on a certain symbol. And so this is sort of also something consistent with, let's say, with the with the Weather Underground ID. And so the FL cue did this too. So they will plant a bomb. But they would, after planting the bomb, they would alert, the, I guess the owner of the building, they say, Hey, there's a bomb, you've got, you've got like five minutes and you've got it, you got to evacuate. And so that was it. So their intention. I just wanted to put this out just to like to try to sort of like, cover their bases on their behalf. Is it their intention was was not to kill people. Even though of course, that's what happened.
Brian Heater 16:49
that specific instance is very interesting, because you know, the one time they decided that the bomb threat was somebody crying wolf, it wasn't.
Chris Oliveros 16:59
Right, exactly. Yeah.
Brian Heater 17:01
What was your relationship to this material growing up in Quebec?
Chris Oliveros 17:05
Well, when I was growing up, like all them all the all events covered in this book, were pretty much like, all before I was born, I was born my just at the tail end of what happens in this book. And then that period in 1970, I would have been four years old. So I don't have any direct memories from this. So and so when I was growing up, it was like it was mostly over. So I didn't get the sense that people were still talking about it. So yeah, it was only until I was in high school that they in my high school class, they showed a documentary on the FL Q. And that's, that's when they sort of really started to, like, learn about
Brian Heater 17:54
it over the decades, as the idea of Quebec independence has continued. What's your sense of what the public feels about these guys in the store? You know,
Chris Oliveros 18:05
it's hard to know, because, as I stated in the beginning, like, so much of this is unknown. So I don't think people have an opinion yet of this, because almost no one knows about what I covered in this book. And you know, it has been covered a little bit here. And there. There was actually a pretty good podcast by CBC about about some at some of these events. And there's a there's been a couple of books that have that have been made, or they've been published in the last few years. But this the coverage, some of the events, but for the most part, there's not very few people know about this, while I was working on this book, I would, you know, mention some of these events, and pretty much sort of to test like people's knowledge to see like, is it just me? Am I the only one who don't know what this but every single person that I've mentioned this to had no knowledge of, of any of this,
Brian Heater 19:07
I was getting conflicting reports, as I was reading about your, your reason for leaving d and q to make your own books. Some of them were attributing that to your previous book, the envelope manufacturer, and some of them were attributing it to this project. Obviously, it's been, you know, as we said at the beginning, you know, eight years since that happened, is this something that you've been percolating for that long?
Chris Oliveros 19:32
Yeah, I mean, the idea probably came, it's definitely older than it's been older than eight years, I probably came up with the idea like over 10 years ago. Good and I really wanted to, so I really wanted to do this book. So then I thought, well, first, let me try to do at that point, I had no book done at all, and I hadn't hardly done any cartooning,
Brian Heater 19:59
you would Been doing the same job since you were 23. And exactly,
Chris Oliveros 20:03
very busy, right? So it actually there was a huge gap where I literally didn't draw for many, many years. So when I had the idea to do this book, I thought, Okay, first let I should have at least one book done. So let me just try to get all my mistakes done. Before I go, because I really was like, enthused about this book on the FAQ. So that let me get my mistake something with the first book, and then you know, hopefully this next one will get done. So then I had variations drafts of that the envelope manufacturer done. So I kind of finished it up. And I publish it as a as a book as its own book. Now, the thing is, while I was doing that, I realized that had I continued staying on Drawn and Quarterly, there was no way that I wouldn't be able to do this book, the book called Are you willing to die for the cause? Because it took a long time to do and it's there's a lot of research, but um, you know, also drawing, you know, just drawing it and writing it, that there's just no way you can, or at least no way I would have been able to do it with a full time job. And so a family and a family to have that that time, my family is quite young. So there was there's no way I would have been been able to do this. And so that was actually a very large impetus on on, you know, why? Why decided to step down from donor quarterly. And, of course, it was an important factor was that the people working on during the quarterly sort of, like, let me do this, people like Peggy burns, and the publisher, and Tom Devlin, the executive editor, and Julia, Paul, Miranda and Tracy, her. And I mean, I can keep on going down the list, but the amazing talented people, and accomplished people are Drawn and Quarterly. And I'm very sort of like, honored to have been working with all of them. And I'm really amazed at what they've done with the company. Since since I left, but like, we could see it obviously, even many years before then. But so I knew I had no, I had no concerns. When I first came up with the idea when I first approached, Peggy burns and Tom Devlin, they were the first two people I approached. And I didn't have any concerns, so that I was so so much in awe of their talents. And I had, I knew that they that they would be, you know, running the company and sort of the best possible way
Brian Heater 22:48
you but again, this thing that you were effectively doing since you were in your early to mid 20s. It must be really scary to one day, just not be doing that anymore.
Chris Oliveros 23:00
I mean, sometimes the scary part was when I mean, obviously I love during the quarter, so yeah, so there was that sense of feeling like Oh, or sometimes, you know, sure, sometimes I did wish I was still there.
Brian Heater 23:17
Yeah, where am I doing the right thing? Yeah, the part where
Chris Oliveros 23:21
you know, am I doing the right thing comes in is like I was thinking, when I was working on this book, sometimes. I really had some severe doubts. And in terms of like, Can I pull this off? And then sometimes I would be thinking, Oh, my gosh, what was I thinking? I've barely had any cartooning experience, how could I even think that I could just step away and do this book? And like, you know, so yeah, there were a lot of doubts along the way. There were a lot of there was there was any kind of doubts along the way. And it just required a lot of discipline to just keep on, keep on going and keep on trying to, you know, pull through. You mentioned
Brian Heater 24:04
that conversation with Tom and Peggy and Julie a bit. Was conversation with your family, like,
Chris Oliveros 24:13
with my family.
Brian Heater 24:14
Yeah, I mean, as far as like, hey, you know, this steady job that I have?
Chris Oliveros 24:21
Well, let me see. Most Well, my three kids, one of them actually was not he was not too happy about it, but I'm not I'm still not really sure why. I think I think he's fine with it now. But but at the time, he wasn't thrilled. But um, and then my wife was not too thrilled either. But, you know, she's fine with it now.
Brian Heater 24:46
I mean, I asked because usually when I asked a question, it's like, what did your parents think about you? But artists? Yes. You weren't making comics at all on the side. During that period. I wouldn't
Chris Oliveros 24:59
say Like, during the 25 year period, I would say like, there were long long stretches. So that could sometimes be, you know, seven, eight years, and then maybe do a little bit more. And then. So like that first book, The mo manufacturer was almost entirely done. While I was still drawn, and quarterly, this summer that I sat down, I was basically just finishing it up, because it literally came out, like, you know, six months later. So yeah, that was a product of like, drawing really early in the morning. So because I had the full time job, and then I had young kids at the time, there was a really short period between 5:30am and 7am, when I could when I could basically draw, and that was it. So that book was done mostly mostly, and what that's kind of schedule, you know,
Brian Heater 25:56
we were talking and I mean, this conversation comes up all the time on the show, I think it partially has to do with just how long it takes for cartoonists to make book, one of the things I've come to recognize is that, again, I seem healthy, I don't think you're dying anytime soon. But mortality can also be a motivator, you know, when you realize that you don't have forever to do these things that you want to
Chris Oliveros 26:20
do. Yeah, that definitely, it definitely makes me focus more. You know, and like I said, I have this goal for this other book that I'm really excited about. And I because it's a great story of wonderful, I want to get it done. So yeah, I definitely like know what I'm doing over the next six or seven years.
Brian Heater 26:41
I also just mean from the standpoint of like taking this big leap and leaving the company founded.
Chris Oliveros 26:47
Yeah, you know, I mean, the other the other thing, too, was that I had, I had a younger brother, who, I think this actually had something to do like a part of my decision. Because around that time, like literally a year or so before it came up the idea of of, of stepping aside from down and quarterly, I had a younger brother who died very suddenly, and he was only 34. And he died. He had a brain aneurysm, he literally like what you know, one day he was there, and the next day he was gone. And and then I think I really started having a different sense of life from that point. And even even now, it still affects me like we can't take anything for granted. We don't. I think since then I don't I never even like take for granted that I'll be alive in the next in the next year. And I mean, anything could happen at at any at any age. And so that was that was sort of like an again, that happened around that time. And I thought, well, if there is a I really want to do more cartooning. And I thought, Well, if there's a chance, if I could, maybe if I could make this work, if I could pull this off, where I can have this succession plan for Toronto quarterly. And then that way, I can also like Duke, some I've thought, Okay, it's gonna be my only, you know, the only way I can get get around to doing this because otherwise, like I said, it would never have happened if I was working full time at Toronto quarterly. And that's the other thing too, like, it's not to say that on the selfish level, that was I'm talking about, like, from my perspective of wanting to do cartooning. But the other really important thing is, from the perspective of an art, the well being of an arts company in general. That's actually a really good thing that I don't see happening very often, like, often you'll have a founder of a company could be publishing could be different kinds of arts company, who will just like, hang on for dear life for like, no matter what, like, that was your role when you founded the company and like, your your role will not change until you die? And I mean, it could, it could be either, it really depends on the context, but it really is important to, to bring in new blood, right to bring in new perspectives and, and to and to sort of have and to have a change. And I think I think that is that is good. I mean, 25 years, that's a long time.
Brian Heater 29:45
And I'm seeing that and a lot of the content that d and q is putting out in terms of like having just more diverse artists making books.
Chris Oliveros 29:52
Yeah, and that's and that's a great thing too, because like, you know, obviously there's been more of an effort in In recent years, and, and and that's really important, you know, but at the same time, it's not like it's not like everyone else was kicked out. Right. So you like you still have like, you still have people who cartoonists who were, who were with the cube from the very beginning. So you still have cartoonists who are with d and q from the very beginning and doing like some amazing work. Fantastic work. I mean, like Seth and an agent Jimena and Giuliani say, and I keep on waiting for Chester's next book and keep on asking him, what he's what he's up to. But so you have some fantastic cartoonists. But at the same time, you have, like so many fascinating cartoonists who are being brought on now, who who weren't who, you know, who weren't there five years or seven years or eight years ago, that group
Brian Heater 30:59
that you mentioned, I mean, you know, obviously, we lost Joe recently. He was in that that trio and Julie was the first book you published.
Chris Oliveros 31:09
Yeah. Julie to say was the first dean Hugh solo title, in that she was soon followed by Palookaville SAS comic book, which actually, remarkably still, is still being published today is as an as a hardcover anthology, a one man anthology. And so yeah, and Julie's still, just last year, Dean Q published a book by Julie. And of course, the latest Palookaville came out a few months ago,
Brian Heater 31:41
because Chester just doesn't publish
Chris Oliveros 31:42
a lot. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm really eager to read his next book. I, you know, I hopefully, that's going to be soon the sense that
Brian Heater 31:53
I get and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's that you had no expectations in the early days that you know, that you were you were publishing this, you know, quarterly and just, I don't know if it was everything just lined up perfectly. I mean, that's a wild roster for your first few books for like a brand new publisher, and then you got, you know, the distribution deal. Did you have any expectations as far as growth in those days?
Chris Oliveros 32:26
Well, I mean, I've said this a few times before, but a lot of it. I think this is the case with a lot of successful businesses. A lot of it honestly, was a question of being at the right place and the right time. And that and that had, one thing I said before, is it had I came around as little as six months later, possibly even three or four months later, I would have been too late. And I literally would have missed. So I would have missed Julie do say it would have missed Seth would have missed Joe, Matt. And then and then having if I did not publish those three, then Chester brown wouldn't have come on board because he came on board. We'll partner. I mean, I offered more money, but also I'm sure he wanted to be what's like the cartoonists that he admired so much. And then and then had all those people not get on board, then a young teenager in Sacramento, then Adrian tahmina, would not. I mean, he he would have been influenced by them. But they may have been published by I don't know Fantagraphics or a kitchen sink or something.
Brian Heater 33:39
It's just a powerhouse to just right out the gate. It seems like z would not
Chris Oliveros 33:43
have you know, wanted to publish with this startup company. Because I wouldn't have had these, these these great cartoons. So So it literally was a question like it literally was months. Possibly as little as three months. If I was like three months too late. I would have missed it all.
Brian Heater 34:06
That has to be the most rewarding part of the job is seeing the way everybody you mentioned, has developed.
Chris Oliveros 34:15
Yeah, I mean, I'm again, it's I think it's I think it's absolutely the most rewarding thing because I was just talking about this. In another interview today how you take someone like Julian, you say, again, the first record of the cartoonist over 30 years. This happened over 30 years ago that I met her and started publishing her and like, as recently as last year, she won the Grand Prix prize in on glam which is like the highest honor any cartoonist could win not not just in France, but like literally in the the world of cartooning. There's no other higher art honor, you can win. So it's yeah, it's amazing to have had a front row seat to have, you know, seen all of this. And then you have all these other cartoonists who, who had been nominated for prizes, which would have been unthinkable. 30 You know, 30 or even 20 years ago, I went to the
Brian Heater 35:17
New York premiere of short covering. Yeah, it will.
Chris Oliveros 35:20
That's another level. Yeah, that's a whole other level too. I mean, then having a film adaptation like Adrian Tamina. Having a film adaptation, where he had all, you know, this incredible creative control. I mean, he actually wrote the script to the film as well, and was, you know, appears to have been funny cameo. Yeah, I love this cameo. And, and, of course, he went on to become a New Yorker artists as well. So it has been really wonderful to see all that and to see like to see them develop as, as cartoonists. Like, all those people started at out of the gate, and like, as fantastic cartoonists, but then to see them, like, just over the years continue, like challenge themselves and continue doing this remarkable work. That's, I mean, that's just so impressive.
Brian Heater 36:17
You mentioned the possibility of Adrian getting snatched away from from Fantagraphics at the time, has there been like a friendly rivalry between the two companies?
Chris Oliveros 36:29
Um, I would, I mean, I would say so it just that. I mean, I haven't, like, I haven't known them that well, over the years. I think other people from d and q have have known them better. But, you know, I think sometimes, like, things were sometimes things were they may have been upset or something, because if we took a photo of it, you know, signed up photographs, cartoonist, but, you know, I think that that hasn't happened in many years. So I don't think it'll, it's not likely to happen. So
Brian Heater 37:09
yeah, there seems to be a mutual respect between the two companies. Yeah,
Chris Oliveros 37:12
I'd say so I'd say so know that I certainly, you know, admire, you know, so much of what they've done. And actually, I mean, I was inspired by a lot of what what they've done like, what, essentially I remember, like reading the editorials, and the comics journal, when Gary, Gary Groff would still be writing them.
Brian Heater 37:31
The fact that all of this came together the way that it did as quickly as it did. Did it derail your plans to become a full time cartoonist?
Chris Oliveros 37:41
You know, I guess it did, because in the beginning, I in the beginning, I was drawing, and then that ended pretty shortly afterwards, within within that first year. So I mean, it derailed it. But honestly, it was probably for the better because what I was doing what I was doing in those early years, like I'm talking about when John instantly started. So what I was doing in those early years, where were my cartooning was terrible, like over 30 years ago, so I'm glad that that that was that. I think I needed, I needed a long break to sort of, like try to sort of, I don't know, get become more more mature as a, as a cartoonist to to make better work.
Brian Heater 38:28
I think about all the time, where I would be if Twitter existed when I was in high school. You know, like, if I had just put things out into the world like that, you know, cuz you think, you know, you think at the time, the argument you're making is great. And then you look back on and you're like, I'm, I want to pull it.
Chris Oliveros 38:48
Yeah. I mean, that's, as you mentioned, about Twitter, like, it's true. It's it stays, it stays there, what you put online. I'm kind of glad that I didn't publish other things when I was 23. Because I, I would have been embarrassed by it. So I'm sort of glad that I got around to it, like at a much at a much later age when I sort of had a better sense of, of what I was capable of.
Brian Heater 39:16
This is a huge project that you're not done with. So you certainly needed to have all of the skill set to pull that off.
Chris Oliveros 39:24
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Brian Heater 39:27
I was reading an interview that you did right around the time that your last book came out. And you said something along the lines of You know, somebody asked me why it was an on Tronic quarterly and you you felt like it would be a conflict at the time.
Chris Oliveros 39:39
I mean, it is a weird thing to have. It's a weird thing to have your work published by the complainant in the company where you're the publisher, and I mean, even though technically I stepped down at that time.
Brian Heater 39:57
You don't know why they're publishing you. Maybe you Yeah, that's the
Chris Oliveros 40:01
other thing too is like, like, there's no, they don't have a choice. So it is a weird thing. And honestly, even when I was doing this book, I didn't really know. I was just working on the book, right? I wasn't really thinking of what would happen, how it would be published. And it was only after I finished this book, this current book. Like, I think the day after I finished it, I sent a printout to Tom Devlin, like a submission, you know, to see and, you know, he seemed to like it. So I, because if he wasn't, if he wasn't in enthused about it, then I'm not sure. Like, I guess, I didn't know maybe you'd have to, like send submissions out to like different publishers.
Brian Heater 40:45
We went head down on this thing. It didn't show it to anyone until it was done.
Chris Oliveros 40:50
Yeah, I there were literally maybe a couple of people. One of them was Chester Brown. And he was he was a fantastic, like, supporter. And like, there were a couple as I mentioned earlier, at some point in their interview, like I several times, they had like, sort of like sort of crisis of confidence. And I honestly didn't, I doubted my abilities, and so on. So Chester was amazing. He, he really helped me, he really helped pull me through this. And so I think I sent it to him like, three, three times, like sort of like, around the first chapter and kind of the and then the middle of the book, and then the very end of the book the same time I send it to Tom. And then also, at the end, I sent it to a couple other cartoonists to Hartley Lin, who's his fantastic cartoonist. Here in Montreal, he he did the book, young Francis, and the combo book series Pope hats. And then Pascal Jr, who's also another Montreal cartoonist. He's He's published several great, great books with withdrawn and quarterly. So yeah, so they, they were they were, it was really great. And helpful getting their feedback.
Brian Heater 42:12
I mean, Chester brings a really unique perspective, because he's kind of written like the essential Canadian history comic
Chris Oliveros 42:20
we exactly. Yeah. No, he has written the best Canadian, the best book on a Canadian history subject. And, of course, just in general, he's a brilliant cartoonist. So yeah, it was really it was really helpful to have his his his his guidance on this.
Brian Heater 42:41
I think in a lot of ways. Kate's latest book is is a Canadian history. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, it's told through her and it's a very, it's a very personal book. Yeah.
Chris Oliveros 42:53
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, her book is also like, I think one of the best books that Jordan Corley has ever published, and I'm referring to ducks. And it, and it is, it's dealing with history, it's dealing with personal memoir, it's dealing with, you know, political issues, current events and and is told in such an engaging manner. So, ya know, Kate is also another, another fantastic cartoonist. That, you know, she's been around, it's been actually, like, it's been about a dozen years now. It's been since she's started out with the in queue, which is hard to believe. But yeah, her first book with the queue was in 2011.
Brian Heater 43:44
Was that hark a vagrant? Yes, yes. Yeah. Very interesting career arc
Chris Oliveros 43:48
there. Yes, yes, absolutely. Going from market Vagrant, to ducks. And there are a lot of similar elements, but but instead of having these one page strips, you have this really, really ambitious, like, 400 page story,
Brian Heater 44:10
one of the things you mentioned again, and I think it might have been the same interview around the last book is that you really, there was no time there was no break between the two, if they immediately threw yourself into this book is Have you already immediately thrown yourself into the second?
Chris Oliveros 44:27
I mean, I have, but it's still mostly in the draft stage. Like I'm still writing it. I've done like a lot of sketches and so on. I have sort of like an outline of how long roughly how long it's going to be. But in terms of doing like, from page to page, I did a few attempts that I've sort of tossed out. It's always sort of takes it's it's always harder for me to start a new book, and I end up like throwing out like quite a few pages up The rest don't leave burger shack.