Peter Bagge 0:00
I find amazingly knock on wood, I never both my wife and I, we never got COVID Even though every our daughter or granddaughter or his son in law, his parents, all of our neighbors, everybody we know God COVID somehow by some miracle, he never got it. So, I mean, we're fully vaccinated. And that's how the vaccinations are supposed to work in. My polio vaccine assures me I'll never get any, that I won't even get a little bit of polio, but
Brian Heater 0:45
you're going out and being generally social. I mean, have you been to any conventions?
Peter Bagge 0:49
Um, yes. It's, I mean, just sort of is. I mean, my attitude has always been, I'll give people their distance and wear masks if, if that's expected, that's what people want. But yeah, especially once I got vaccinated, if it was totally up to me, I didn't care. I'll go anywhere. I've been to a couple conventions since the end of the pandemic, both were just terrible. I don't think we've ever gonna go to another comic con. Just for me, it was just terrible. One was a mainstream show, the Seattle one, Emerald City, which I remember the first time I went there, I made so much money, I did great. And this time, it's like, I made like, in a couple hours and made 100 bucks. And then for the next three and a half days, I didn't make a penny. And I was like, the only there was like, I would say there's only one of the person I met there in Artist Alley. That was a cartoonist that made comic books, that nobody else was a cartoonist, I
Brian Heater 1:51
would think that you're a draw in Seattle, but I don't know, maybe you've oversaturated this yeah,
Peter Bagge 1:56
there's like a mandolin. I just didn't. Nobody related to me. And I didn't really tell anybody else, not just the artists around me. But you know, I mean, I'm a million years older than everybody else. And they were everybody was into stuff that had sure had no interest to me. They sure weren't interested in comic books, even though it's called a Comic Con, you know, they, it's just everything else. Like I sat next to this one artists, she all she did was, she did these colorized she would take a photo and made these colorized prints. And it was all of actors who play vampires on TV. And lots of so many jewelry makers, so many people making jewelry, you know, which is fun. But you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't set up shop at a jewelry convention. But they kind of took over.
Brian Heater 2:49
Maybe that's what you're doing wrong. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, she
Peter Bagge 2:52
go to one of those. But even the last time I went to an indie con again, it was local, but less than one we do anti con, you know, hardly made any money. It's just so in the meanwhile, the main way I'll make money too, is by selling original art. And now I just regularly sell or I send original art into an auction house heritage. And it's fantastic. I do really good. You know, I'm making way three, four times more money than I ever would at a comic con. And I just want to have to do sit here. I just have to box up the art send it to him. My job is done. No getting on an airplane is sometimes during auction time. It's it is a it is incredibly random or some occasionally? Well, my expectations have gone way up with the money I make from them. So sometimes I'm quite disappointed. Like, where's Where is everybody? Why is nobody auctioning bidding on this greed piece? Other times she could tell. You got a couple of drunks who are just going.
Unknown Speaker 3:56
And then it's like, like, it's like nine o'clock at night. And
Peter Bagge 3:59
yeah, and then it's like, then the next day you see they're trying to unload it immediately on that comic things. Like what was I think? If
Brian Heater 4:09
they're getting drunk and auctioning bidding on auctions, I doubt that that is the most regret that they've had the following morning.
Peter Bagge 4:19
Possibly, possibly, it was Eric
Brian Heater 4:21
Reynolds, who told me years ago that he said he'd never He never regretted buying a piece of original art. And I've no, I think about that a lot.
Peter Bagge 4:33
Yeah, I'm sure he's gotten pretty good deals. He has an amazing collection. Have you ever been to his house?
Brian Heater 4:38
I haven't. No. Yeah, no, he's
Peter Bagge 4:39
got a really good collection truly amazing. It
Brian Heater 4:43
seems like real estate. It seems like one of those things that just like it's a good investment. It's gonna it's going to accrue over time. Yeah,
Peter Bagge 4:50
yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So was there anything in particular that you want to talk mainly about the hate and we able to Read it how many I read all four of them for them Jackson into the whole thing. Okay. For
Brian Heater 5:05
some reason that B, the B strip there was it was doubled up in two issues. Yeah. Was it striped pants? Yes, stretch. Yeah. Yeah. That was like that really? That caught me off guard. Oh, that's really you go and put it all in on the really just kind of go and super wacky Well,
Peter Bagge 5:33
it's uh, you know, those were written by my old roommate Dave Karina. And we used to do your teeny batons together in weirdo going. We used to collaborate way back in the 80s on a lot of stuff and, and a little bit since then dribs and drabs, you're done. And he's sending me these ideas. You know, I'm laughing my head off at them. And I'm also like, Oh, you're not supposed to do stuff like this anymore. But then I was like, you know, here I am laughing at it. So I'm gonna draw it What the hell? So and it's exactly like what we would have done 2030 years ago, but I don't know. We'll see. Maybe I'll get arrested. Who knows? Exactly.
Brian Heater 6:14
It's about panic comment when I when when this was first announced. She's just like, Yeah, I don't know how this is gonna show. They published Johnny Ryan, there's nothing in here. That's That's
Peter Bagge 6:25
right. You can always you can always pointed at Ryan. And if you want to play what about
Brian Heater 6:31
that strip in particular actually did kind of had some had Johnny Ryan esque energy. There's the guy whose dick so big that he has to carry around in the wheelbarrow? No,
Peter Bagge 6:42
yeah, no, that was a character we used to do. We back when and we always made giant dick jokes about that.
Brian Heater 6:50
So so that was a thought going into it is. I guess what you can, for lack of a better term get away with now? Well,
Peter Bagge 6:59
you could the fact of the matter is you can draw anything, you know, the Taliban hasn't taken over yet. You can't draw everything. You know, you just might get yelled at a lot on social media. But I mean, no, nobody's gotten shot out yet. Maybe it'll be the years. Outside
Brian Heater 7:22
Charlie Hebdo. Right. Yeah. Right. What was the reaction to the the Magga hat on the first issue? Buddy, we're in the back of
Peter Bagge 7:34
some people like Oh, no is Budhia Maga you know, and I it's out of court, you read it? So you know, it's just a joke. It's just it's just an exaggerated reference of dialogue that happens in that in that story. But no, and I was wondering, with a few people, like on Facebook, just a few friends who are like, What the hell? I felt obliged to say, No, he hasn't gotten Magga. But otherwise, not spoiler alert. I should keep them wondering. But here eams. Spoiling alerting again, it
Brian Heater 8:08
would be heartbreaking, this beloved character.
Peter Bagge 8:13
Except Except to the readers who have gotten Maga then they'll be like, great. Yes. There we go. Yeah,
Brian Heater 8:19
I wonder if that's like a significant portion of the people who are going to be reading this.
Peter Bagge 8:23
I wouldn't say boy, I have no way of gauging. I wouldn't say significant, though.
Brian Heater 8:29
I suppose that there are people out there who were more to the left, toward the left before and have really, you know, again, just to use an overused term, but have had the sense of backlash to what's considered Kancil culture, and that has probably pushed them further to the right.
Peter Bagge 8:52
Yeah, yeah, possibly. You know, I wish just offhand, I can't think of anybody that I know, personally, who's gone down that road. And we hear about people, people who are on Twitter a lot, you know, who have done some kind of one ad. And it's all just a reaction. No, not entirely. I mean, it it's an understandable reaction, but But yeah, I can't think of anybody that I know personally that has done some crazy flip like that. It seems like
Brian Heater 9:26
it's the people who themselves have been canceled and and they find this like alliance with the people who feel bad for them because of that.
Peter Bagge 9:36
Yeah, yeah, I guess I suppose. Would
Brian Heater 9:38
you say you're pretty much where you've been politically for a while. I
Peter Bagge 9:41
can't think of making any big shifts, you know, still. A libertarian. I haven't done any. It's very, I don't know if you pay attention to such such things. But in speaking of going Maga The people who are the people who run the Libertarian Party are very, they're like Republican light, and they've completely taken over and ruined the party. I've never belong to the party. But the last last couple of presidential candidates I liked a lot. I thought they were great. And I couldn't believe that just says, I mean, they still weren't winning shin. But especially right now I would look, of course, I don't want to vote for either the Democratic and Republican it's a shit show has been for a while, but I was I was very comfortable voting for who the Libertarians were putting up, but now I don't know who they're gonna put up. They just, in fact, the party, the Libertarian Party, they are at their next big convention, the keynote speaker is Donald Trump. And they're also they're also trying to woo, JFK Jr. who isn't the libertarian at all. It's their crazy people. It seems to me like though they're Starfox. I have zero proof of this. But it wouldn't surprise me at all. If it turns out that it was Republican operatives, when they saw how, in some swing states have the Republican candidate that didn't I mean, the Libertarian candidate, the votes that she got, swung the election assuming that of all the votes that winter her would have gotten to Trump. So it wouldn't surprise me. Well, if it turns out this, what happened to the Libertarian Party was the Republicans took it over. They just set some credit. I don't know how they did it. But it would explain everything, it would explain it, the whole idea is to just destroy the Libertarian party who's doing better all the time. And if they're if the if they want to destroy it, they succeeded. They succeeded with flying colors, because they turned it into a dumpster fire.
Brian Heater 11:55
I suspect you'll take issue with this sort of popular conception. But I think generally people tend to think of the American form of libertarianism as being more closely aligned with the right
Peter Bagge 12:07
that is, yeah, I don't I mean, culturally, I consider myself a very liberal, and most of the most libertarians I know, would be liberal, you know, it's like, like, I work for reason magazine. And almost everybody works for reason magazine, most of them anyway. They live in big cities live in New York, LA, you know, I live up here in the Northwest, DC. And all the people we know are liberals. You know, we all consider ourselves liberals. But I guess just like with anything else, once once, Culture Wars stuff rears its ugly head, that's when you get this big divide. And what I liked about being in the libertarian world is that was not a big issue. That wasn't a big deal. But especially with starting with Trump that I've noticed once Trump got elected, and then and then again, even more so in 2020. For the first time ever, I saw all of that stuff affecting libertarians, and like a couple of people stopped working for reason magazine, because reason didn't hate Trump enough. They hated Trump. But it wasn't enough. They thought you should be all in and spend every waking moment making sure he doesn't get elected. But I don't know it's a depressing subject.
Brian Heater 13:34
Again, like you said, you consider yourself liberal. You know, you live in the Pacific Northwest, a lot of alternative cartoonists also consider themselves liberal or the left Did you did you feel like you almost had to have like a coming out in terms of aligning yourself with libertarianism. And I've
Peter Bagge 13:52
always felt that for as long as I've been an adult out. I would say that I would describe myself that way. Even before I really knew what the word meant. I remember ages ago, like one of the first cartoonists I knew and did comments was was a guy named John Holmstrom. He used to do punk magazine. And I and I befriended him in the late 70s. And I remember just walking down the street, we're talking about some political issue or a bunch of them. I don't know if he was just trying to gauge where I was coming from. And just at a certain point, he just stopped and he pointed at me, he says, You know what you are, you're a libertarian. Okay,
Brian Heater 14:30
did he say like, it was a bad word?
Peter Bagge 14:32
Yeah. Well, no. He didn't. You know, I think at the time he's was it was a bit contrarian at the time, but he was I don't know what he is now. I don't really speak to him much but back then. He was like, I don't know I would describe it as cosplay Republican, you know, just to piss off the libs and you know, because you know, we were living in lower Manhattan you know, everybody was super left you know, it was two of them noxious agree it is very auctions and that's the story of my life being an artist, if you're in the arts, if you're an artist, a writer, musician, unless you are to the left, I would say like the range is middle of the road, left to to communist, that's the range. And so I'm always wherever I go, I'm always the odd man out. And I'm used to it. The only thing I don't like about it, the only thing that I ever find frustrating about it. And unfortunately, this happens a lot is when I'm talking to somebody who doesn't have a fucking clue what Libertarians believe in, and they're just spouting bullshit at me, you know, telling me oh, so you think it's like, no, I don't think that you also don't know what you're talking about. And unfortunately, a lot of my, a lot of my best friends do that. You know, years and years decades go by, they'll still do that. But what are you going to do? I should stop complaining about it?
Brian Heater 15:51
Do you find that it's useful to have that label as a shorthand that you can give to people?
Peter Bagge 15:58
Yeah, um, but again, like shorthand doesn't work. Like, it's like telling somebody I'm a Democrat, that can mean 1000s It's a spectrum. You know, so let's, if I just say to somebody, I'm a libertarian, they might think of somebody that they know who's libertarian, who I might not have much in common with? Or who might be a flaming asshole. And, and, and, of course, their brain will go to, oh, you're like somebody I know that I really hate. So sometimes, that sometimes that shorthand that one word isn't it's not always enough, you know? But, no, well, I
Brian Heater 16:34
was trying to determine where buddy is and all this. You know, he's, I guess I would say, non active participant is probably the best way to describe his political affiliation. Oh,
Peter Bagge 16:44
based on reading the new comic. Yeah, yeah. Well, again, like that first story is called buddy Bradley wants to be in nothing. And that's yeah, he's, he's he's not having much success at it. Just like anybody who wants to be a political nothing is having a hard time of it these days, since there's so much pressure to choose sides. But yeah, he wants he wants to remove himself from the conversation. Do you relate to that? To it to a certain degree, you know, I thought it'd be too onpoint it would be too much me if I if I had a buddy Bradley saying, Hey, I'm a libertarian. You know, I don't want him to be that much of a standard. But yeah, I do. Really, you know, I
Brian Heater 17:23
would say that one of the one of the bits that made me laugh out loud was that he had only voted once and he wrote in the rent is too damn high guy.
Peter Bagge 17:35
It's funny is part of the joke, too, is that he doesn't even know the guy's name. He just remember seeing, you know, clips on the news of him at that debate. What was even running for was like, something was he's in New York State Governor, or the mayor of New York City. And, and of course, he was hilarious. And, and I have buddy, like, not remembering his name, or not even knowing his name when he voted for him. And even myself, like I was looking, you know, I'm making this comic, the least I could do is Google that guy's name, just so I know. But I didn't. I could No, it's better than even I don't know.
Brian Heater 18:13
I appreciate it from the standpoint that it's it's a righteous form of anger. And I think that that's what buddy connected with.
Peter Bagge 18:21
Right, right. But yeah, I was with that buddy story. The I was pretty happy with the way the whole thing came out. It was my it was actually my Spanish publishers idea. In Spain, my publisher there, they do very well with my comics. And I did a little book signing tour there two years ago. And while I was there, they said, we'll pay you in advance if you will do some new paid stories. They were and I was like, what would you want? You want me to do them that bad? What the heck? But then once I ran that past Fantagraphics they said, why don't we just do it the way we always did? We'll pay the same advance. We'll publish it in English, they'll publish it in Spanish and and the characters they all came rushing right back to me as if I never stopped working with them. It would it felt really natural and comfortable doing it. Was
Brian Heater 19:23
there a point in your life where you just really didn't want to reconnect with these characters? Not
Peter Bagge 19:30
really, I was wanting to keep them keep them alive in for a while for like 10 years after the initial hate run. Every year, I would do a comic called hate annual. And we'd have a short buddy Bradley's story. But each issue when every issue came out, it would sell markedly less. So I still had a lot of ideas for the characters. But it just seemed like the public was my readership was losing interest. They were evaporating. And I would wonder is this because Really, but he's getting older and he's married now and people don't want to read that shit. They just wanted to read, you know, buddy in the gang back in the day, you know, getting into lovers triangles and fighting with each other and all that kind of stuff. So when it was proposed that I would provide aid with this new mini series that's coming out. I, that was very much on my mind. So I thought, Well, I would definitely want to show buddy and everybody else now, present day. But I also knew that when people say Oh, you got to do hate again, they're speaking out of nostalgia, they want to read, see those old Seattle or whatever? Comics so so that's why I made it a blend. I never in my whole life. I've never worked with flashbacks. I've never done that before. But I decided to make each issue
Brian Heater 20:52
a mix setup visitor behind you.
Peter Bagge 20:55
Oh, hi. I'm talking to somebody is my granddaughter Sylvie, and you tap is this for me? Oh, thank you. I'll keep your keep it here. So she's gonna come back and take this back. She's always giving me gifts and then taking them back.
Brian Heater 21:13
At first I was mixed on a flashback. And then as you continue reading it, it dawns on you that each of the flashbacks is there to set up the current day story.
Peter Bagge 21:24
Right? Yes. Take it back. All right. And yeah, another thing to keep with during these flashbacks with this new mini series was, I was having so much fun working with the character stinky. I mean, I was laughing out loud on my old comics, drawing stinky. And I kept thinking, why did I kill him off? What the hell was I?
Brian Heater 21:48
Why did you kill him off?
Peter Bagge 21:50
Well, it's just he was like, He's based on a lot of people I know or have known, who had just the spin out, you know, they don't, they don't mature, they don't evolve, they just and it gets it reaches a point where it's not cute anymore. So I didn't you know, if I hadn't aged way ahead, buddy and Lisa age, I thought it'd be like, he'd be more tragic than funny because that's the type of person he is. That's who he's based on is people who never grow out of that being some kind of a character, you know, there's some hyper romantic character. And it just doesn't age well. So I didn't. So I thought I'd do him a favor, and their favor and kill him off before he becomes too pathetic. So, but again, it's like it's it was fun doing these comics for them, because it's going back to when he was young, you know, like one comic is even before buddy Bradley ever met him. The one with the dynamite where he's the latchkey kid, you know. So
Brian Heater 22:57
it's an opportunity to have almost like, unrestrained ID in the story.
Peter Bagge 23:01
Right? Yes. Yeah, which is what he is. And there was always a lot of like, you know, it opens with when voting for Smith. Lisa, there's a lot of things that I did in the old comics, where I never addressed the backstory again, because I don't do flashbacks. But, again, when I started working on this mini series, I thought, Well, why don't I do a comic about when they actually first met. And that scene was like, just at some point, I made this passing reference to the fact that Valerie and George of all people became a couple. So I thought I should do more about that. I should show how they started hitting down that road,
Brian Heater 23:45
you know, you almost have to backward engineer that because they are so different and clearly, like hate each other when they first meet.
Peter Bagge 23:52
Right? But yeah, but you know, it's it was funny working with a character, Valerie, because in some ways she's flawed. But then I but it also was like open I like work at her flaws make me laugh. You know, she's a control freak. And with these flashbacks to out, I tried to that to me that was clear with the old comics going way back when when it first started doing he has she was a control freak, which I don't think other people it seemed like people did and even had a violent temper, which other people didn't pick up on. But at this time, I want to drive that home. But it was in my main concern when I figured I was going to really emphasize that with her is I thought it would make her unlikable but she's to me she's electable because that control freaky aspect of her makes me laugh. As long as somebody makes you laugh. Then all is forgiven. But yeah, like her insurance is like what an easy time she has controlling in. All she had to do is agree to be his girlfriend, he couldn't believe he had a girlfriend. So, okay. So tell me what to do.
Brian Heater 25:07
I think maybe the disconnect and maybe the reason why people didn't didn't quite grasp it is because it's a really it's a hard line to walk tonally in the book where, for example, there's that bit where buddy's mom says, Stop strangling your sister, you know, which is a very, like, cartoony like, Simpsons approach to it. But then like, there's a wooden buddy talks about having trauma from Valerie, like, there's, there's something very real there.
Peter Bagge 25:40
Right, but and also, he says, at the same time that at the time it was happening, it didn't feel weird. It didn't. He wasn't thinking what the hell, it's only when he thinks back on it, then he things What the hell, but at the time, you know, he was like, convinced that he was the bad guy, you know, back when they were dating, he just come in said, Whatever. tropeano Mainly because Valerie would tell him that whatever troubles we were having was on him, and it was partly on him. He was still immature. Yeah,
Brian Heater 26:08
but he knows that he's a fuckup, too. And everybody in his life is telling him he's a fuckup. Right.
Peter Bagge 26:12
And, you know, and she was trying to turn them into somebody that he wasn't and D, you shouldn't do that. She's trying to mold him, ya know? So, I don't know. But again, like it's, I was, especially with Valerie character was a bit of a tightrope walk. You know, I did I want her to make her stools make her likable and sympathetic, in a certain way, you know? And I had even have a, like, when buddy's complaining about how woke she's gotten leases, telling him to shut up just because she's like, look, I like her. She's my gal. We're friends. Don't ruin that. Don't want to keep it that way. He's like, okay, you know, to me, that made perfect sense to you even even if might you have a good reason to find Valerie annoying. Shut up.
Brian Heater 27:17
But he is very much what we would call a troll now, as evidenced by the Maga hat on the cover, but also he he pushes people's buttons.
Peter Bagge 27:28
Yeah, and he always did. You know, he always pretty much did, but not that he doesn't make a point of it's not. I mean, he's not a professional troll, you know, he's not on, he's not on Twitter. So he's not going out of his way. He just, he just doesn't have much of a filter when he is with talking to people face to face. But you know, that's just that. That's true of almost all cartoon characters. That's the point of making comics. What popular cartoon character does keep everything close to the chest? They'd be boring. You gotta know what they're thinking, you know, or otherwise just have a lot of thought balloons. You know?
Brian Heater 28:11
Are you suggesting that Bugs Bunny isn't very introspective? Yes. There's a moment in there were this is really fun. I usually don't just like go into the specifics of books like this. But I it's it's really fresh in line. And especially like having such a personal having had a personal feeling of personal Connection to these characters over the years. It is it's really interesting to reconnect with them in a way and there's a moment in the book where Lisa says, Hey, we turned out all right. And you think you think to yourself, yeah, they did, in spite of everything.
Peter Bagge 28:45
They somehow made it through. Right? Yeah. And while I was doing the story, the present day stories, because Lisa was very neurotic, she was vaguely suicidal. She was a real nut back in the day when she acknowledges Yes, it but while I was doing this, join them like right now. I just thought I was thinking when I did the math, it's like, oh, their son would be an adult. When I draw their nuclear family, the son is now an adult. He'd be in his early 20s. And, and their effects alone made it impossible for me to make Lisa nutty. It's kind of like being a mom and raising this boy, who's now a man. That's what made her normal. I mean, she's still kind of goofy, there's still has the same personality. But being a mom coat totally stabilized her gave her a focus and a purpose, an undeniable focus and purpose, you know, and into my mind to that, that. I was trying to contrast that with what When buddy meets stinkies mom was totally changed, when it came to reason still is totally checked out when it comes to her own flesh and blood. And you know, and I wouldn't make a comic about her about stinkies. Mom, that wouldn't be very pleasant.
Brian Heater 30:19
The tragic scene really? Yeah,
Peter Bagge 30:20
yeah. Yeah, they help people find a plausible because I've hopefully you've met people like that I've met people like that or who are just so I don't I don't really know what happened to my daughter. But no, well, but yeah, it's I've wanted to contrast that with the way Lisa was where it's like that that was her focus, you know, by default, her focus was Look at this kid now, you know, and my life revolves around that. That made her saying that that is what made her stop being crazy.
Brian Heater 30:57
Now that you're saying that there is a sense when you think about it, that she that Lisa could have gone the way of stinkies mom
Peter Bagge 31:08
that would have been really depressing.
Brian Heater 31:10
She found this thing that she found a meaning in her life. And that's what that's what kept her grounded. Is that something that you can personally relate to?
Peter Bagge 31:21
Not No, no, not really, you know, um, you know, it's like my wife, once we had a kid, of course, our daughter became her focus. Prior to that she had a career as a cook. And, and that was her focus, then, you know, so but so she wasn't coming unglued before she had a kid. There wasn't some big change in her personality. It's just priorities shifted, you know. But But yeah, I'm sure that nobody's jumping to mind. But I'm sure I've known people who've whose were parenthood me them. Stop bouncing off the walls, you know, it did rein them in. And of course, tragically, there's also the opposite, where being a parent has no effect, and there's still bouncing off the walls.
Brian Heater 32:15
I don't have kids. But my understanding and having friends who have kids and watching them is that it really recontextualizes your entire life in a pretty profound way. It seems. Yes.
Peter Bagge 32:27
Yeah. For me, it was still, for me personally, as opposed to my wife. I was a cartoonist before I had a kid and I continued to be a cartoonist. So there always was that constant. But But, yeah, but fortunately for me, my daughter who's married now and that was her daughter. They live really close to us practically walking distance to where we are now. So they're over here all the time. So with this three year old, you just saw come in the room. It really I feel so much like, I'm in a flashback. With still issues always coming into my studio. It was when my daughter was three, it was the same exact thing. So lots, it's I have to check myself to make sure I don't call her Hannah, which is my daughter's name. Because no, it's it's like I'm reliving everything. But it's
Brian Heater 33:19
also profoundly different than having your own kids. Well, yeah, it's less exhausting,
Peter Bagge 33:23
because then she goes home to her house. So she does, she doesn't wear me down that much as much as our own daughter did. Sounds
Brian Heater 33:32
like the process of I mean, obviously, we'll see when it comes out. But I suspect that there's going to be a lot of a lot of interest in it. Because it really it reminds me of the bands from the 90s who kept touring versus the bands from the 90s who stopped touring and then got back together. And people love Are you Jews?
Peter Bagge 33:51
Yeah. This is a reunion. That's for sure. This is a reunion show.
Brian Heater 33:58
Sometimes you have to go away for a bit for people to really appreciate that.
Peter Bagge 34:02
Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. Like I like with hate, and well, I didn't go away. You know, it still was there. You know, just got lots of shrugs. I guess doing those hate angles to it's a little bit like, you know, you look there'll be a famous act a game from the 80s, the 90s whenever, especially the 80s and 90s. And then you look in you see, whatever act it is, it's like, oh, geez, for the last 20 years, they've still regularly been putting out albums. And you know, they never chart you had no idea never heard a song from them, but it's still like just out of hair. So even if they sold millions and millions of copies back in the day, now nobody is buying. Well, I guess somebody is but not many. You know, they still have the diehard fans but so yeah, it makes you wonder maybe they would have been better off if they just stopped completely, you know, and then come back 20 years later,
Brian Heater 35:00
maybe you can relate this, I can certainly relate to this, I have effectively been doing more or less the same job since I was, you know, 20. They've been doing the same job since they were probably 15. And a lot of cases. So it's like, what? When this thing stops working like, what do you do with your life?
Peter Bagge 35:21
Right? Right. Yeah, no, it's hardly a day goes by that. That I haven't thought about doing something else for a living, especially There's certain times the joke with me, but it's true, is when I'm getting fitted, getting fed up with being a cartoonist, the person I always envy or delivery men, when reasons, partly because it's like, I see them, they come to my house, but whether it's a mailman or Amazon delivery guy, but also I noticed the only time I envy them is when the weather's nice out. If the weather is horrible, it's pouring rain, and the wind is blowing. It's just hell out there. Then I don't think I wish I was a mailman. It's hot weather. weather's great. And I'm just thinking, I'm stuck inside and this guy's getting paid to walk around in the sun, you know, then I want his job. But, but what I was getting to, though is honestly, I can't imagine, really, I can't imagine not being a cartoonist, you know, the idea of not completely stopped doing comics, it's sort of inconceivable, it's like to stop eating. You know,
Brian Heater 36:35
I would say that you have managed to successfully reinvent yourself. In terms of the work you've taken on over the years.
Peter Bagge 36:43
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm an opportunist. I've taken these opportunities have come my way. And I've taken advantage of them. And, you know, and made it work made it work. For me anyway, not everything I've done has been huge success. Few few of the things I've done since hate have been a big success, but But I enjoyed all of them. I'm proud of everything that I've done. So yeah, I got no complaints, all
Brian Heater 37:08
of the nonfiction books that you've liked the Zora Neale Hurston book that you did, is that something that you're still actively interested in?
Peter Bagge 37:19
Well, I stopped doing those full length biographical graphic novels, just because it's so much work, you know, those three I did withdrawn and quarterly, and they gave me a decent advance and what most people think is a generous advance. But that money would all be spent in three months, and I still have three years of work into on it. So it was, it was really difficult just for that reason, just financially. That like, that was the toughest time I've ever had. I did it because I love doing those books. I love the subject matter, and I'm happy with the way they came out. But yeah, but that was really tough money was really hard going. But I still do biographical comics all the time. For Reason magazine, I still three or four times a year, I do just these four page biographical portraits. Me and the editor will settle on somebody, somebody that that we both think reasonable readers would find interesting. And I'd like I'm about to do one on John Locke. But but you know that it's there, just four pages and reason pays, they pay well, so that is totally worth my while and I'm enjoying doing those. I still really very much enjoyed doing biographical comics, I would love to do tackle somebody for like a full length comic, a full length graphic novel, biographical shrimp, but like I said, it's just so much work. The person that keep leaning towards is Brian Wilson of the Beach
Brian Heater 38:59
Boys. I was actually just about to suggest that although obviously, it's you know, different than the other books that you've done in a day before, but I'm looking at it now. So this is exactly 10 years ago, I commissioned you to do a Marie Wilson, I have a mural over there. I think that that would be fantastic. And I think that there is there's so much interest now that people are really kind of understand what he went through. Well,
Peter Bagge 39:30
the problem though, is he's still alive and I'm not comfortable. But with every biographical strip I've ever done, I've never done one about somebody who's still alive. And one of the reasons is every single one, sometimes it will be immediate, but whenever somebody passes away a lot of facts secret stories about that person come out that were kept under wraps, so I feel like there's an awful lot that I I would hate to do a biographical strip about say somebody like him, and then after he passes away way, like a lot of what I've written might not have been true, you know, and there's a lot of other things I didn't know about. So apparently he has dementia now. So I don't think Yeah. And I was talking. Do you know Tom Kenny? Is he a SpongeBob SpongeBob guy, he was talking to him on the phone. And he was on his way to Brian Wilson's wife passed away. So he was going to go to memorial for her. And, and so again, I read that I read that Brian is starting to suffer from dementia. And this is terrible, but we both have the same time to sit. But who can tell
Brian Heater 40:45
that's the thing you're talking about, you know, the possibility of these things coming out about him and it's like, well, it's hard to imagine anything dramatic coming out about Brian Wilson that we don't already know.
Peter Bagge 41:00
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But still you never know. It's it seems like it always happens. So I
Brian Heater 41:06
now have a strong suspicion having spoken with you about it that this very much is not going to be the last time that we see these characters. Oh,
Peter Bagge 41:15
I don't know. Like again Eric rounds at Fantagraphics he was very happy with the way it came out and he said you got to do more. But at the moment nothing's jumping out at me I can't really think of what's next. So if I was going to do something else like this and other mini series it'll be a while you know it's not some I want to jump right on the
Brian Heater 41:38
world's had to kind of unravel for it to make for really good stories for these characters. Yeah, yes. Is everybody's kind of an archetype in this book, really. rather's you know, firing off the the AK in his mom is Magga. And everybody represents this, this kind of this this character of the current American experience? Sure,
Peter Bagge 42:02
that's because everybody in America has become a character. We've all turned ourselves into archetypes except for you and me. We're sold individuals. Just everybody else.