Jet lag is a drag, leaving Sean "Grasshopper" Mackowiak at a decided disadvantage during our conversation. Mercury Rev just got back from Australia, but the veteran guitarist happily powers through. It's just one of those annoying things that one grapples with, being one of two consistent members of a globe trotting band for the last 35 years. Grasshopper's answers are thoughtful and engaged, as we wade through Mercury Rev's celebrated history.
Grasshopper 0:12
Music. So we got there, and our flight out of New York was delayed, so then we were supposed to have a day to kind of rest. But then we were delayed, like 10 hours in the airport, so then we didn't get there till the morning we played. So we were kind of, we were just up and up and running.
Brian Heater 0:32
Had to moderate a panel in Hong Kong, and got off the plane and then went to the venue. And, you know, it's not quite like playing a full show, but I just, I, like, I turn to the guy, and he said, I think I'm gonna be okay. But, like, just in case things go, like, too off the rail, yeah. So you're, you're in Kingston, is that right?
Grasshopper 0:59
Yes, yeah.
Brian Heater 1:01
I asked because I I was in the city. I was in Queens for about 20 years, and I just moved up to the central Hudson Valley last month.
Grasshopper 1:11
Oh, wow. Where are you at?
Brian Heater 1:15
I'm in Highland. Do you know Highland?
Grasshopper 1:16
Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'm just Yeah, Highlands, not that far from from where I hadn't
Brian Heater 1:23
heard about it until I actually, like, looked at a place here. It's just kind of a blip. Yeah,
Grasshopper 1:31
so if I'm driving from my house to Poughkeepsie, I have to go through Highland and then go over the beach and stuff. But
Brian Heater 1:37
yeah, that was one of the big draws, is we've got the that walkway between Highland and Poughkeepsie.
Grasshopper 1:45
Have you gone to Rossi's deli yet? And Poughkeepsie? No, oh, it's kind of by the train station. You have to go there. It's like, you know, one of the best in the world. It's great
Brian Heater 1:59
Italian is that the one it just like, looks like it's somebody's house.
Grasshopper 2:03
Yeah, it's like an out, yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I used to live in Poughkeepsie, there, a couple blocks from there, but it's world renowned.
Brian Heater 2:14
I looked at a place, or the realtor showed me a place in Poughkeepsie, and I like my understanding, you know, I'm really sort of like getting to know the area now, but my understanding is, like, town of Poughkeepsie, cool city of Poughkeepsie, maybe don't necessarily want to live there. Is that? Yeah,
Grasshopper 2:32
depends on, like, if you're down there, if you're kind of down by the water there in that old neighborhood, it's pretty good there. Then, if you're over by Vassar, it's pretty good there. But then a lot of in the Midtown area, it's kind of a kind of rough, you
Brian Heater 2:49
know, I came up the Metro North Hudson line, yeah, which you are quite familiar with. I understand, you know, if I'd known the area that I would have gone to the deli that you just mentioned, but I just found this, like Bodega next to the station, and two guys came in and started yelling at each other, like screaming at the top of their legs, like older guys, like probably in their 60s, and one of the guys says the other guy, he's like, I'm gonna cut your fucking throat. I'm gonna cut your fucking throat, right? And the guy leaves, and then the other guy pays for his whatever, and he goes, Oh yeah, that was my brother.
Grasshopper 3:29
I believe it. I believe it. That's kind of like the Little Italy area that right there by the train station in Poughkeepsie there.
Brian Heater 3:36
So how long have you been, generally, in this area for? I'm trying
Grasshopper 3:39
to think I've been here since about 95
Brian Heater 3:46
Yeah, so, like a chunk of really, I don't, this is kind of a goofy term to use, but the band's heyday, you were up
Grasshopper 3:55
here, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was, I was born in Buffalo and so I was in Buffalo. I was in Western New York, so I was 21 then I was in New York City for a while, on Lower East Side. Then I've been up here since then, since 95
Brian Heater 4:17
the band, like essentially forms around Buffalo, and does the entire group move down to the city?
Grasshopper 4:24
No, I moved there. Suzanne Thorpe, Jonathan was kind of living half and he was in Oklahoma because he was in The Flaming Lips, and then he was going back and forth, staying with us and you know, and David Baker, at that time was in Baltimore. We were all over the place, pretty much, but me, myself, and Suzanne were in New York City.
Brian Heater 4:57
You guys have always had a pretty close. Relationship with the lips. But I mean, in that, like, specifically in that time period when the band was really sort of, it seems like, from the outside, going for it was it difficult to having a member who was, like, doing halftime in Oklahoma in another band.
Grasshopper 5:16
It was just a lot. I took the bus there a couple times. He took the bus to Oklahoma, yeah,
Brian Heater 5:22
how long of a ride is that?
Grasshopper 5:24
It's crazy. It's, I can't even remember it was the long. It was long. It was like, I don't even know, 20 hours or something. The guy I was, the guy that I was seated next to on the bus, he was, he had come up from Florida. He worked at Disney let he worked at Disney World. He was moving to Disneyland, and he played goofy. He played goofy. So he was like, Goofy, and I had to ride with goofy from, I met him, you know, in New York, at Penn Station, I think, and then or Port Authority, wherever. And then we went across to Oklahoma, and I sat with him the whole time. See you later. Man, good luck. Good luck in your west coast. Goofy, do they get transferred? Is that a thing that happens to I think they can't. I think they can if they want to. Okay, he, he put in for the transfer. So I see Yeah, but yeah, going out there was crazy on the on the bus and and Jonathan came back a lot, but yeah, I went on the road with the lips a couple times, and Nirvana was opening up. So this was during, I think, Nirvana's album, bleach and and so Kurt Cobain came up to me because I was selling merch for the lips and doing, like, tuning their guitars, doing confetti and bubble machines and the whole thing. And Kurt came up to me and said, Hey, can you sell our merch while you're selling theirs? Because we don't have a merch guy. So I said, Yeah, I'll do it, you know. So I had to count in his shirts and count them out every night, then he'd tip me for selling his shirts.
Brian Heater 7:15
I've had a bunch of these in my life, but I suspect you've had a lot of these little sort of moments. You look back on him, and they take on a lot more significance.
Grasshopper 7:25
Yeah, many, many times, yeah. We when during deserter songs, Robert Plant came backstage, and it's funny, because he was dating this girl at the time from he was dating this woman from New Paltz who we knew so the small world, you know, it's like he came back to see us, and he was with our friend from New Paltz. Crazy. That's wild,
Brian Heater 7:52
yeah? For people who don't know New, New Paltz is that's actually right next to me, right? Yeah. Did you have any interactions with rubber plant?
Grasshopper 8:00
He just, he came back. Yeah, we he was, he was great. He came backstage, and we had a beer with him and stuff. And just, we had a lot of questions about, you know, production and stuff of so some of those solos and the and, you know, the arrangements that John Paul Jones did and things like that. But, yeah, it's pretty cool,
Brian Heater 8:22
because I find stuff like that can can really go either way, and obviously on both sides of this, but like, you know, just bum rushing this guy who was in, you know, one of the biggest bands of all time, and asking a production questions, he could easily just tell you to fuck off, right?
Grasshopper 8:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he liked the show. So he was pretty, you know, it was in London at the shepherd Bush empire. So he was pretty cordial
Brian Heater 8:52
with Dave in the band too. I mean, it production has been, it seems like production has been a really important aspect of music creation for you guys, yeah,
Grasshopper 9:04
yeah, that's, you know, when I knew Dave, I was in a punk band with I was in a band called The People's Front of Judea in high school. And I met Dave Friedman then, and he started, we needed a bass player, so he started playing bass. Then I lost track. I mean, I was still talking to him for off and on, but then when Jonathan and I started doing Mercury rev, I got back in touch with him so that we could record. And he was at Fredonia, where I actually grew up, in Fredonia. So we were using the studio there, and that was kind of his his senior project was your self esteem. But we were kind of learning it all together at the same time, like Mike placement and just fucking everything up and doing things, you know. Uh, completely backwards or, you know, and new ways to try to make it at that point, like digital sound just was coming out and stuff. So, you know, we had the big tape machines, but then we started to, like computers and ADATs and stuff came in. So it was like that transitional kind of period. But now everything you can do on Pro Tools and stuff in like a second, it would take us hours and hours to to edit stuff or, you know, reverse the tape and do a backwards solo or stuff like that. So did the old old school way.
Brian Heater 10:41
That's funny. I was a couple days ago, I was interviewing John Davis from Super Dragon, and he was talking about this moment that they had where they were, like, really putting their foot down, about wanting to record analog and, you know, like Dawn of Pro Tools. I know a lot of people were, like, very anti. And I think it probably just didn't sound as good as it does now anyway. But was that, was that ever a principle for you guys? Was it ever important to kind of to do it the old school way, or, once these new tools were made available, did you jump on board?
Grasshopper 11:16
We tried to always, we still do. I think, you know, use, use both, you know, we love the old tube stuff and running it through the valve compressors and things like that. But also, yeah, I mean, just now that it's gotten so much better with the with computers and stuff, it's and it's so much easier. We do. We've embraced that too. So we're we've kind of, you know, whatever's the easiest, but we like the war, the warmth, it's the warmth and everything. I think some analog has to be in there. At some point, it just makes it nice and cozy.
Brian Heater 11:57
Am I right in understanding that the band really kind of took their time with this record to get it right.
Grasshopper 12:03
Yes, we did. And, I mean, we started recording, you know, during covid And so, you know, there was, like, stops and starts and stuff as there were, you know, just in life, just in life, but, yeah, I mean, the last year, we kind of really pulled it together. We recorded a lot more stuff, probably like twice as much, and then we put the song, you know, picked out the songs that kind of stuck together and had a theme and and worked on those ones in the last you know, year.
Brian Heater 12:47
What was that theme? When it started emerging?
Grasshopper 12:53
Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of references to like a bird, a bird inside me, and I don't know, loss, loneliness, trying to to make sense of the world as it's changing rapidly before
Brian Heater 13:15
our eyes, perhaps not for the better, perhaps not for the better,
Grasshopper 13:19
but that then, you know, the hope that's there through, especially through music that helps to bring you, to bring you back, or give you a place to land that bird or plane on the runway. Hopefully, what
Brian Heater 13:39
were those few years like for you? The pandemic years
Grasshopper 13:45
it was, I have two young sons, and so I was there. Now they're 10 and six years old, but I was watching them a lot because my wife owns a bunch of hair salons in a in a in a hotel and stuff. So she was, she kind of, and she, she kind of works in New York City on television and stuff sometimes.
Brian Heater 14:06
So she's got to make that commute,
Grasshopper 14:09
yeah. And so she was back working, and I was, I was with the boys. Was with the boys, watching Spongebob and educating them and Ren and Stimpy and stuff like all the good, you know, classic stuff, Bugs Bunny cartoons.
Brian Heater 14:29
Frankly, that sounds like a pretty good time.
Grasshopper 14:34
It was good. I mean, it was frightening, but also because of what we didn't know what was happening, but it was also really comforting. Of just like I got to spend a couple years, yeah, with my kids. You've
Brian Heater 14:47
been in a band and a band basically your entire adult life and and, you know, I I'm sure you've talked to plenty of people who are in bands and tour. Throughout their kids, entire childhood. And, yeah, you know? I mean, obviously it's your job, and it's what you have to do for a living, but I think that there can be a lot of regret there, yeah,
Grasshopper 15:10
yeah, definitely missing certain thing, you know, yeah. I mean, just, even just now, just I was in Australia for a couple weeks, and I got home and just my son, Donovan, like, had a little growth spurt, so he was big, you know, in that two weeks. So I can't imagine it, you know, if you're on the road for like, six months or something, it's got to be crazy. But I share a lot of stories too, because Wayne has a couple little kids from The Flaming Lips now, so we send each other photos and stuff.
Brian Heater 15:44
I mean, you've got a pretty decent sized tour coming up, European tour.
Grasshopper 15:48
Yeah, it's gonna be, yeah, nice chunk there. Hopefully the kids will come out to somewhere Scandinavia or something nice.
Brian Heater 16:02
How does something like touring change as as you know, as as you get older, and as everybody has families and people, obviously, you've been dispersed as a band for a long time, but as people tend to kind of drift away.
Grasshopper 16:15
Yeah. I mean, well, it's just changed a lot in itself, as far as like, when we in the beginning, we used to, like, they didn't charge you for extra luggage and stuff. So we we'd have one of those, we'd have one of those trolleys with, like,
Brian Heater 16:30
I love a great, pragmatic answer to a question.
Grasshopper 16:36
You know, we'd have, like, a trolley with, like, 20 guitars and bring all that kind of stuff. And now, you know, you really have to strip down like because they charge you so much for bringing everything, or we rent the stuff when we get there, but and just other other waiting. You know, it used to not be so many. I don't know if it's the climate change just because more people are traveling and are both or whatever. But I mean, you know, the flights get so delayed and you're you spend half the time sitting in airports and and waiting for missed connections and things like that. So, yeah, it's kind of crazy. The travel now is is crazy. Do
Brian Heater 17:23
you feel like the band, just like, I guess, kind of creatively or like, in terms of you coming together and putting out an album, going on tour, that you've that you're pretty locked into a cycle at this point?
Grasshopper 17:41
I don't know it's different every it's kind of different every time. I mean, there's you have your certain rituals and things to keep yourself sane, like everybody, you know, we'll meet together, have dinner sometimes, or things, but everybody disperses and kind of sometimes checks the city out on their own. You know, some reason to use use books or use records or whatever, but, yeah, it's just so you have that, but it's always different. And the different tours you do, like in America, it's kind of different than when you're in Europe and and things. So you think you're going to be locked into something, and then never, you know, those funny little plans that never were quite right that comes into the picture where it's like, it's just thrown for a loop at every second.
Brian Heater 18:38
Obviously, there was, there's, actually a quite a few years between these last year records, I assume that covid probably played a big, yeah, a big part in that delay.
Grasshopper 18:47
Yes, yeah. That was, yeah. That was why it was a while, just
Brian Heater 18:56
sort of, broadly speaking, in terms of, I guess, sort of being creative and and collaborating between the lot of you, what? What did that look like during that period? Um,
Grasshopper 19:07
Jonathan and I would get together a lot when we could, but then a lot of times there was big breaks and that which was, which was good, in some ways, because we could reflect on what we had done, or like, work on the next step, or work in song, kind of like in groups with the songs, which we've kind of always done anyways so, but this was kind of like, you know, before, it's kind of self imposed, and this was, like, imposed by other forces. So you had to work instead of kind of making your own schedule, it was schedule of when you could do it, but we were when we couldn't get together physically. We're doing stuff, you know, like this, where we were just talking. Yeah, doing stuff on, on Zoom, or, you know, talking to the the other guy, because Jesse plays with us, and he, he's in mid Lake. He's from here up, he's up from here and from Woodstock, but he near Kingston, but he lives in Denton, Texas, because he plays with Midlake. And so, yeah, just talking with him, and he got here as much as possible and played live with us. But then there was a couple songs where we set him the tracks, and then he did it. He recorded down there in Texas. So yeah, I was, you know, all over the doing things in different ways, as much as we could, could get it together.
Brian Heater 20:46
We obviously talked about this a little bit at the top in terms of, you know, the importance of production and the importance of studios, especially in kind of the formation of the bands, but, but at this point in the process, you know, I think you, I assume you and Jonathan especially, are pretty locked in. But how, how important is it to get everybody in a room playing together?
Grasshopper 21:11
I think it's really important, because with us, we just, we love, we like that contact of of playing together and having and we're and and feeding off of each other, and so when you're doing it remotely, it's, it's harder to really lock into that energy, and also just, you know, do things on The Fly, or shout out, can suggestions and things like that, and kind of figure it out as you're going along. So it's like, it's pretty important for us to to kind of be together in the room doing it.
Brian Heater 21:53
You made it sound earlier, like in kind of normal, I guess, non pandemic, times that it's a it's put that putting an album together is almost like a very like deliberate process that that the two of you sort of decide that this is the time to start putting down songs.
Grasshopper 22:09
Yeah, we do, yeah. Do that, at least you know, and see what comes out of it. Sometimes, just that the push to just start, just to just start putting stuff down to tape, or, you know, to table around, to the computer, to Pro Tools, whatever. But we still do use, use tape and stuff. But, yeah, I mean just to get that ball rolling, and then you might not use what you first start doing, but, but it gives you the idea. It's the road to that, getting you know, doing what you end up the final, the final album that comes out is all in that road of discovery. It must
Brian Heater 22:53
be an interesting part of the process of writing those songs, as you said, almost writing like too much for the record, and then starting to see these these themes emerge. I mean, here it's really obvious, right? You know? I mean not to put like too fine a point on it, but that this is a product. You know, you mentioned loss and loneliness and trying to make sense the world of very much of the current moment. But is there ever a case where you started writing something, a theme has emerged, and you've kind of, I don't know, maybe figured something out about yourself or where you are in life that you didn't necessarily realize until you started that songwriting process.
Grasshopper 23:38
I think that that happens. I think that happens all the time. It happens all the time, especially, yeah, with the lyrics. You know, Jonathan writes a lot of the lyrics, and he might not talk about that aspect of of his life that deeply. We'll talk about other things like the Buffalo Bills, or, you know, the Yankees game, or hockey or something. But then, then when you hear this and these lyrics, you're like, Okay, he's, he's opening up and talking about this stuff, and, and that's what I'm kind of feeling, too. And, and then you make the music from there. I don't know, Jonathan's kind of like the director, and I'm, I feel like the cinematographer. I try to fray frame it for him and put it down, you know, get a good perspective on it, and bring it all into focus a bit. So we work well like that together.
Brian Heater 24:47
You're just describing, like, such a classic dude thing of you know, we get together, we talk about the Yankees, we talk about football, and then under, like, the current is all of this, like, low weight. And despair that we won't address head on. Yeah,
Grasshopper 25:06
pretty much, yeah,
Brian Heater 25:09
this case specifically, like that is that that's that's such an essential part of, like, that friendship specifically, and that partnership, but, but I assume, like, music having been such a an important part of your life for so long that you must just find yourself relating to other people through music in
Grasshopper 25:29
that way. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah, relating on that other unspoken level of music as communication, where you're you don't have to Yeah, necessarily say it with words. It's, it's in the feeling and in the color of the music. And yeah, I don't know, yeah, a lot of times. I mean, we finish each other's sentences, or when we're working with Jesse and things which just describing what we want him to play and, you know, it's like that a lot, very intuitive for us. I
Brian Heater 26:17
think to a certain extent, this is probably overstated, but, but, you know, there's a reason why it is that the parallel between being in a band and being in a relationship, you know, in terms of, like, what you do say and what you don't say. But it's, it's always remarkable to me when people, I mean, obviously, a lot of it's luck. A lot of it is working really hard, but like finding that creative partner that the two of you, I mean, you know the band, but the two of you especially have been able to stick it out for as long as you have. What do you why do you think that is?
Grasshopper 26:58
I don't really know. I mean, we were, we have this. We have a lot of the same, likes going but, you know, football and the hockey and things like that.
Speaker 1 27:11
But yeah, dude talk.
Grasshopper 27:14
But growing up, growing up in the 70s, just a lot of the a lot of the film, you know, even beyond music, like we both were teenagers in love the Blade Runner movie, and we didn't know each other at the time, but that was when we met each other. We were talking about just that film and the Star Wars and stuff like that, like pop cultural moments that we both liked. And then, you know, the musical things, like, both, you know, finding like, Sonic Youth at the same time, or Velvet Underground, or Neil Young and things like that, and the music that our parents, you know, his parents listened to a lot of Broadway tunes and stuff like that. So did mine. So we had like, those kind of connections too. And so, yeah, that stuff runs deep. I guess I've
Brian Heater 28:04
always been of the opinion that, like that, that stuff isn't superficial, because there are certain things that draw us to to similar things. But, but also just in terms of, you know, having collaborated with somebody for that long, there's a certain amount of, I guess, having to, kind of to put your ego aside, yeah, in order to continue to have, like, such a fruitful relationship.
Grasshopper 28:36
Yeah? And the trust, I guess, over the the trust over the years, to to, to put that trust and know that you know when you do put your heart on your sleeve, or whatever, that it's it's gonna be taken it's gonna be taken seriously, and, And, and work done. And, yeah, not, not the cast aside.
Brian Heater 29:04
It's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to be, you know, especially like somebody grew up. I mean, obviously punk can be very earnest, but you know, it can be hard to put your yourself out there and to be vulnerable in that way and so almost like to not worry about feeling like corny in the process of doing that. Yeah,
Grasshopper 29:29
yeah, exactly, yeah. I think a lot of that too is just like the
some of the the literature and stuff we were into, like the beat generation and stuff where, where, you know, Neil Cassidy and Jack Kerouac and, you know, very dude bros or whatever. But then. But then also there's, you know, that other level of, hey, we're going through this on the road, and we're kind of like, going through this life together. And so there's the bomb there, like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid kind of thing. Of, you know, you got each other's backs through, through the thick and thin of the robbery. You know,
Brian Heater 30:26
go to the heist with somebody,
Grasshopper 30:28
yeah, the heist, the big,
Brian Heater 30:32
I don't know if it's after the second record. You know, when you kind of go into direction and your lead singer leaves. Or, you know, maybe those two records right there were received as well as as you had hoped. Was there ever a point in there when it it wasn't clear whether you were going to keep doing this?
Grasshopper 30:57
Yeah? I think, well, yeah, during deserter songs, we thought that was kind of like it. We're kind of like, well, this is, this is probably the end, so let's make this the best thing we can kind of do, and just go for it. And so I think deserter songs kind of came out of that. It was maybe despair, but also, like throwing caution to the wind, of like, who cares? This is this? Is it? And so, yeah, I was kind of bored of that, I think. But then it became this, you know, then it became this most successful, so that we were like, well, now what do we do?
Brian Heater 31:42
That's interesting. So deserter songs, and that really did change the tide for for you. And in a major way, that was a result of, like, having nothing to lose, almost,
Grasshopper 31:54
yeah, exactly, exactly you said it. When time
Brian Heater 32:01
come, does come to record, the next record, and you've already gone for broke, like, what does that conversation sound like?
Grasshopper 32:11
Yeah, I don't know. Well, we did all this dream right after, and that one was pretty was very successful too, but I don't know we just, kind of, like, we had this renewed, invigorated that just came natural. Yeah, we didn't really even think about it as much as, like, we started writing those songs kind of on the on the road when we were touring with deserter songs. Because we did. We toured a long time for like, a couple of years, so we were sort of getting restless on the road, and we started writing some of the songs, like Dark Is Rising and Hercules and a lot of that album, like while on the road. So yeah, that we just kept on, Kevin, keep keep keeping on.
Brian Heater 33:02
Can you kind of point to like what it was specifically with deserter songs that where things really clicked, like what, what it was that you tried, that you hadn't tried before.
Grasshopper 33:14
With desserts, I think you know, we had on CO on the other side, we had started to do work in different ways of I think there was like influences of Doo Wop and jazz a bit more, and just different kind of American music and stuff And but with deserters, I think it was more realized and doing like the strings and wanting to do at the time we were during like before deserter songs, we had this little band up here in Kingston just for fun, and it was called Earth to chat, and It was a bunch of friends of ours and stuff, and we'd get dressed up like the Rat Pack, and we do these tunes, do like Sinatra and Tony Bennett, like standards and stuff, and have have fun with it. And that actually, just doing that led us to this other way of songwriting, you know, this kind of different way of songwriting, but then adding in our, our stuff, with the noise and the production and things and and so I think deserter songs, in a way, was a culmination of that, of of doing that, that project, that's
Brian Heater 34:38
where horns and jazz, I know you're a clarinet player, that's where all that starts, kind of filtering into the group. Yeah,
Grasshopper 34:45
a lot more. You know, there had been glimpses of it, I think, on your self esteem and and BOCES and things. But yeah, it became refined, I think, a lot more and came into focus. Is with deserves. Did you
Brian Heater 35:02
ever feel competitive with the lips at all?
Grasshopper 35:08
Not really, not really. I don't think maybe Jonathan might have,
Brian Heater 35:17
I don't know if you this is something you can relate to, but something like, I've been trying to get better at my life is like just being happy about my friends successes, you know, like trying to begrudge people for right? Yeah, that's not an easy thing to do.
Grasshopper 35:32
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we both wish each other the best in both bands. And you know, you know, one of the last shows we played before covid, we it was with the lips down at levitation in Texas, and that was like, you know, this great show. We had this great memory of that. And then, you know, few months later, we're in lockdown and stuff like, what the hell's going on now? But yeah, we're still, still great friends with with Wayne, and talk to him once. So yeah, it's not sick. There's there's room enough for everybody.
Brian Heater 36:20
Is it clear every time an album comes out that there's going to be another one?
Grasshopper 36:27
You never know. No, I don't know. You never know. I mean, you, you plan on it, but, uh, this crazy world, it's like, but, yeah, we, we hopefully there'll be in Hollywood,