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[00:00:01] We were rehearsing with Louie Abbott from Admiral Fallow because he is going to drum for us on our US leg of the tour, or North American leg of the tour
[00:00:27] Because Louie, our drummer, he's not gonna come to the States and Canada, Mexico
[00:00:35] So Louie is gonna come
[00:00:38] So we're kinda rehearsing with Louie and with Lee, so we're doing double rehearsals with two drummers
[00:00:48] Maybe not a bad setup at some point, I'm trying to think if there are a few bands over time who have done the double drummer setup
[00:00:55] Would definitely be an interesting change from your sound to have two people
[00:01:02] We won't have two at the same time
[00:01:04] No I know, I'm just saying that you could theoretically do that at some point
[00:01:08] Trying to think out which bands I've seen with that
[00:01:13] Oh, I've definitely seen bands play with more than one drummer
[00:01:16] I don't think we need it in our sound
[00:01:19] It might be a little heavy for camera obscura
[00:01:23] What's been an interesting process though, is there a way in which you're kind of relearning your songs at the same time, teaching them to somebody from the start?
[00:01:35] Kind of, but Louie is very professional so he just charts all the songs and he just turns up and he knows how to do them
[00:01:47] So yeah, I guess though a lot of the time when you play
[00:01:53] Well I was thinking about this because a lot of the time if the speed isn't quite there or something
[00:01:58] Or I noticed that the speed is different from how we would normally play it with Lee
[00:02:02] I have to think well Louie's probably been listening to the records and he knows exactly what the speed is
[00:02:09] Whereas I don't listen to the records, I just have an idea in my head
[00:02:13] And we've been playing some of the songs for so long that I actually have forgotten what the speeds are
[00:02:19] And we just play them the way we play them, so yeah you're right
[00:02:22] It is a beacon of relearn if you want to, if you need to
[00:02:29] I've talked to a lot of musicians about how their relationships to songs change over time
[00:02:33] And obviously there are cases of artists who make a very concerted effort to evolve their songs
[00:02:39] But it sounds like there's also just kind of a natural evolution that happens over time
[00:02:44] Yeah I mean, I think some of the songs that we've been playing are so old that
[00:02:53] You know the muscle memory is there and you just don't really need to think about it so much
[00:02:59] But then saying that we haven't played them for eight years or something in a regular way
[00:03:06] You know the way we used to
[00:03:08] So actually I must confess that I'm finding it a little bit harder for the new songs to sink in
[00:03:15] Because of course you write the songs and you know how to play them when you record
[00:03:21] Because you're recording them and we do it live
[00:03:24] But then there's a gap and then you've got to relearn them again
[00:03:31] I think because we don't spend every day together practicing
[00:03:36] The muscle memory is maybe it's because I'm getting on
[00:03:40] It's harder for me, it's harder for them to sink in
[00:03:45] But the old stuff you know if I just have a little faith
[00:03:50] It's in there, you know it's in there somewhere you just have to dig it out
[00:03:55] In the earlier days were you practicing every day?
[00:03:58] Not every day but there was a period when the group were all full-time musicians
[00:04:04] And you know we were really in the thick of it
[00:04:08] We were either on tour or rehearsing for a tour or writing songs or practicing the songs to record
[00:04:16] And we were just a bit more on it
[00:04:21] We have not played that much as a group apart from making this album over the last you know seven years or so
[00:04:31] The last record we made was ten years ago, previous to this new one
[00:04:38] So there would have been a time when we would have not every day but certainly three times a week or something
[00:04:48] When you are touring on the regular and when the band is your full-time job
[00:04:54] That gives the songs a chance to evolve prior to actually recording them
[00:05:00] We were never really a band that would work up a song and play it live before it was recorded
[00:05:10] We just didn't really do that, we weren't really much of a jammy band
[00:05:15] You know like jam too uptight and conservative for that kind of thing
[00:05:25] Yeah, no I mean yeah I think we just would do it in
[00:05:31] Right we need to make a record so here's a bunch of songs let's work on them
[00:05:37] We might have tried the odd song but it would probably have been recorded first before we'd play it live
[00:05:45] It sounds like from interviews that I've listened to and read that writing comes in fits and starts for you
[00:05:52] That there are definitely periods that are much more fruitful than others
[00:05:56] Yeah I mean I don't know what the norm is anymore because nothing feels very normal at the minute
[00:06:02] You know we've not been doing this for a while
[00:06:09] Yeah we haven't made a record in ten years but I've made another record and I have continued to write songs
[00:06:17] You know but yeah fits and starts I mean sometimes certainly in the last ten years since becoming a parent
[00:06:27] I haven't been able to just concentrate on myself, you know my life hasn't been just mine
[00:06:33] There's another focus there so certainly when it comes to songwriting I don't maybe have had the time or the energy to
[00:06:45] You know put the work in and might have had the inspiration in places
[00:06:49] You know I might have had that certainly but the time that I think it takes sometimes I feel like I'm the sort of person
[00:06:57] that likes to have a lot of time on my own to do that
[00:07:02] Yeah it's not really a thing when you've got a child needing all the things
[00:07:12] It makes sense and it didn't even occur to me that the time of those two things match up
[00:07:17] I don't have kids but I've got a lot of friends who have kids
[00:07:21] Time passes differently when there are children involved so I've noticed
[00:07:26] And when you think about on the flip side of that ten years maybe in some ways doesn't feel like a long time
[00:07:33] and then you realize like oh I've created this human and now they're like at this stage in life
[00:07:38] and it's wild how much can happen in a decade
[00:07:41] It is wild, it's wild to think that it was ten years ago that we brought our record out
[00:07:46] that that much time has actually passed because in some ways it just doesn't feel like
[00:07:54] it's not like we didn't do anything we still I felt very busy
[00:08:01] I haven't felt like particularly like I took a big break but of course in a way we did
[00:08:10] We did take a big break
[00:08:13] Initial hiatus with the band was started for different reasons but I mean there is a way in which
[00:08:20] actually let me retake that
[00:08:24] One of the things that I've heard from a lot of parents especially of younger children
[00:08:30] is those who are in bands and who tour
[00:08:34] that there is this benefit of the pandemic that I hear from all these people who tell me that
[00:08:43] because their life is being on tour so much that maybe they weren't like there for their children
[00:08:48] in the way that they would have liked to have been and the pandemic forced that
[00:08:52] but it sounds like this was also whether intentionally or not
[00:08:57] an opportunity for you to be there every day in a way you might not have if you were
[00:09:02] in a really active band
[00:09:05] I think it's impossible for me to think about it being any other way than how it was
[00:09:11] because not only obviously did we some of us have children in the last ten years
[00:09:20] Gavin and Kenny and I all are
[00:09:24] those two have got two kids each and I've got one
[00:09:29] but we've all got a boy that's around ten
[00:09:33] ten I live in they're all the same age
[00:09:36] but of course Kari passing away as well was really the thing that
[00:09:44] I suppose forced the hiatus
[00:09:47] but who knows it might also
[00:09:51] you know it might have been difficult anyway with small children
[00:09:57] but having said that we've all done some tooting
[00:10:02] when small children were around
[00:10:04] you know I did a tour four years ago with
[00:10:09] Danny Coughlin you know I made a record with Crybabies
[00:10:13] Danny Coughlin him and I went away in two stints of
[00:10:18] you know North American tours
[00:10:21] and we went to Europe and we went to the UK
[00:10:25] so I have done it and I think my kid was like six then
[00:10:30] and that was probably
[00:10:33] I was talking to him about that the other day actually
[00:10:36] because you know I like to sort of throw it through
[00:10:41] and maybe a drive to school or whatever
[00:10:44] remember I'm going away soon and it might seem like a long time
[00:10:48] because I'm actually personally I'm actually feeling quite anxious about
[00:10:52] or quite nervous about that length of time
[00:10:56] you know that I'll be away
[00:10:58] and but he seems to be quite cool with it and sort of says
[00:11:02] oh yeah it'll be fine you know it's not like on my baby or something like that
[00:11:07] but I do remember I think it was difficult when he was six
[00:11:11] and I was away for that length of time
[00:11:13] I think it'll be easier
[00:11:16] I mean the thing is when you're away you're busy
[00:11:21] so your mind is on the job
[00:11:23] and when you're in the moment you're focused
[00:11:28] and it'll be the same for him you know there'll be
[00:11:32] it's a bit of a pool though
[00:11:39] you know there's a sort of
[00:11:41] you want to do what you do which is make records and go on tour
[00:11:45] but you also have this life that requires you to be around
[00:11:53] your torn
[00:11:55] I will am torn by it
[00:11:57] it's not easy to make the decision to go
[00:12:01] but it's not because for lack of desire or want to do your job
[00:12:08] I desperately want to be able to do my job
[00:12:10] I wish I could do my job more you know do more of it
[00:12:15] so it's like is it sort of maybe
[00:12:20] I'm not saying it's not conducive to have children
[00:12:23] and to love this life
[00:12:25] it is people can make it work
[00:12:27] and of course you know kids are pretty resilient
[00:12:32] they get on you know they're going as long as they're fed and watered
[00:12:38] and put it to school with some clothes in their back
[00:12:43] they'll be fine it will be fine
[00:12:46] but it's yeah
[00:12:48] not to be super corny about it
[00:12:51] but there are certain things that if you miss you can't get back
[00:12:55] and you can always you know as long as your body is still able
[00:12:59] you can always keep touring in the future
[00:13:01] yeah we'll see
[00:13:03] I hope so
[00:13:05] you know touring is a big deal though isn't it
[00:13:08] it's a bit of a big operation
[00:13:11] you know it's logistically this band will find it difficult
[00:13:20] you know we're not full we're not all full-time musicians
[00:13:24] sort of sitting around you know waiting to do that
[00:13:28] some people have pursued other careers and they're juggling
[00:13:33] those other jobs with this job again and family life
[00:13:38] and everybody wants to do it and we want it all
[00:13:42] it's just working out how to get it all how to do it all
[00:13:49] was that ever a thought for you that maybe it's time to look into also doing something else
[00:13:54] not to replace this outright but you know another I guess another chapter for you
[00:14:00] I mean I think I'm a bit of a one-track pony to be honest
[00:14:04] I think I like the idea of doing something else
[00:14:09] it's just that nothing else is
[00:14:12] I've never been pushed to go anywhere else in a big way
[00:14:19] you know I'm sort of hanging on for dear life to this in a way
[00:14:26] who knows I mean I'm 50 in a few months
[00:14:31] it's never too late to start something
[00:14:36] but you need to have the desire to start something
[00:14:39] and I'm a bit sort of all or nothing I think in some ways you know
[00:14:46] I am as well I understand that
[00:14:48] yeah and I'd like to be able to maybe have another income or something
[00:14:56] or interest but I just haven't found anything that I like as much
[00:15:03] you're married to a musician so there isn't that external pressure
[00:15:07] or at least there's that built-in understanding of what it is you do
[00:15:13] mm-hmm yeah there's plenty of understanding and I've always done this
[00:15:18] so there's no problems with that it's just
[00:15:22] yeah you know I don't
[00:15:26] it's a fun thing to do but everybody knows that it's gotten a bit harder
[00:15:32] you know financially it's quite a big feat to
[00:15:37] you know to finance a tour and do the thing and you know make some money from it
[00:15:44] or break even or whatever it is you know it's a big operation but
[00:15:49] I think the main thing is there's will to
[00:15:54] and desire to go on the road and to have made this record
[00:16:00] and the opportunity to go and play to people again is not really anything that we've taken for granted
[00:16:07] because we almost I guess it felt like we kind of lost that you know
[00:16:14] it was never a given that we would do this really
[00:16:18] it wasn't not on the cards but it wasn't definitely on the cards
[00:16:22] so I think for us it's really it's special to
[00:16:26] it means a lot you know it's not just
[00:16:30] you like back in the day when alright we've done that tour and then we're going in this tour
[00:16:34] and then we're doing that and you're just in the thing you know getting on with it
[00:16:38] it's not really doesn't really feel like that this feels very separate and special
[00:16:44] a special time
[00:16:46] like anything else one does for a living there are times when it does feel like a job
[00:16:50] prior to that to the hiatus where their
[00:16:54] where their points where it
[00:16:57] you know where it wasn't necessarily a given that it was going to keep happening
[00:17:01] I don't know it's hard to say I think
[00:17:04] I think I could personally admit that probably
[00:17:08] around you know before making this
[00:17:12] I was a bit burned out to be honest
[00:17:16] you know I was a bit burned out
[00:17:20] and I think that's natural
[00:17:24] of course you need time to recharge the batteries it might just have been that we needed
[00:17:29] some time you know
[00:17:33] but obviously there were things that happened that dictated
[00:17:37] what we did next
[00:17:40] so I don't know but
[00:17:44] yeah I'm not sure hard to say
[00:17:47] it's a tricky line to walk in the early days of
[00:17:52] I mean obviously when you're young when you're in your 20s
[00:17:56] you've got a lot more energy to keep going but
[00:18:00] even then you need breaks but it's difficult to know
[00:18:04] if and when to take one because you start building this momentum that you
[00:18:08] want to keep up
[00:18:11] I think pre-desire lines there was no
[00:18:15] question of stopping or
[00:18:19] taking a break we were just getting on with it
[00:18:23] we were enjoying it enough but yeah you get
[00:18:28] sort of caught up and before you know it you're doing
[00:18:32] the thing that you want that you set out to do which was be a full time
[00:18:36] musician, somebody who tours and gets the opportunity to make records
[00:18:40] and travels the world and you know you're in it and that's
[00:18:44] that is I can see that
[00:18:48] that is a really precious thing you know this is a really
[00:18:52] special privilege to be able to do that
[00:18:58] I'm not saying I didn't appreciate it then I could
[00:19:03] appreciate it but when you think that you might not do
[00:19:07] that you really see it for what it is you know
[00:19:11] and I think that that took me
[00:19:15] yeah that took the past
[00:19:19] seven years whatever to really
[00:19:23] to get it, the penny dropped you know
[00:19:27] I was reading another interview that you did where you were discussing
[00:19:31] the time off and it sounds like there was also
[00:19:35] then in a certain sense maybe it was taken for granted that the band
[00:19:39] would happen again you know it seemed not necessarily
[00:19:43] you didn't know when it would come back together but it felt like
[00:19:47] something that you were going to do again
[00:19:51] I think so I mean there was never a you know we didn't break up
[00:19:55] we never said oh right I've had enough of this
[00:19:59] circumstance dictated
[00:20:06] what happened and it wasn't really
[00:20:10] a whole in a way
[00:20:14] so I think there was probably always the chance
[00:20:18] that we would make
[00:20:22] a record again
[00:20:28] it was just something we never really talked about a lot
[00:20:32] we just didn't we had other you know there were other more important things happening
[00:20:36] and I think when we
[00:20:40] you know when we got asked to play the Boatie Weekend or the
[00:20:44] Belfast and Curated Festival it was on a
[00:20:48] cruise ship from
[00:20:52] Barcelona to Sardinia
[00:20:58] we hadn't played together for years and we got together
[00:21:02] and it really it felt to me
[00:21:06] it felt like I was as excited
[00:21:10] as I was in the beginning
[00:21:14] you know I was really
[00:21:18] sort of turned on to it
[00:21:24] I felt very alive again
[00:21:28] I realised how much I'd missed it
[00:21:32] it inspired me to write songs
[00:21:36] it felt like a new chance or something
[00:21:40] an opportunity to
[00:21:44] do it better or something in a way or appreciate it more
[00:21:48] to be less scared of it
[00:21:52] be a bit more confident about it or enjoy it more
[00:21:56] don't be so serious about it you know that kind of thing
[00:22:00] it was lots of positivity
[00:22:04] and we did
[00:22:08] it was the idea
[00:22:12] after Kerry died that it would almost be painful
[00:22:16] to do this again
[00:22:20] definitely I mean absolutely how can you
[00:22:24] the thing was different it changed forever
[00:22:28] it wasn't the same
[00:22:32] obviously
[00:22:36] there were some bands of many other bands that lost band members
[00:22:40] and you know they pick up
[00:22:44] and they get on
[00:22:48] and people had been in and out of the band for other reasons too
[00:22:52] yeah they had previously
[00:22:56] but the core most of the work that was done in this group
[00:23:00] were us five of us
[00:23:04] yeah it was
[00:23:08] I think there was certainly a period where there was no appetite for it
[00:23:14] but things change you know grief is a thing that changes
[00:23:18] and you change
[00:23:22] you feel one thing that one day and you feel another thing another day
[00:23:26] and that's healthy
[00:23:30] and not so surprising
[00:23:34] I would want to write songs
[00:23:38] as I had done for the past 20 years
[00:23:42] you know it was kind of my identity
[00:23:46] and I think that you know I was very aware that I might be
[00:23:50] losing that identity or my identity
[00:23:54] if I didn't get on with it
[00:23:58] it's an identity but it's also whether consciously
[00:24:02] a way of processing the world and this was something that very much needed to be
[00:24:06] processed exactly
[00:24:10] and the way that I've processed the world is by
[00:24:14] writing songs about things and so
[00:24:18] what happened was just the same really
[00:24:22] something else that was meaningful
[00:24:26] and needed to
[00:24:30] be processed and dealt with and taken care of
[00:24:34] and a corner needed to be turned
[00:24:38] a subject matter that's not necessarily out of place
[00:24:42] with the songs you write I mean because you know
[00:24:46] certainly you're not afraid of being melancholy on record
[00:24:50] no I'm not I had a chat the other night
[00:24:54] with another interviewer talking about that
[00:24:58] you know whether you feel
[00:25:02] scared to be so
[00:25:06] brutal or open or vulnerable
[00:25:10] yeah vulnerable and I think that
[00:25:14] I'm not scared to be that actually
[00:25:18] I'm not saying I'm used to it I'm not brazen
[00:25:22] I'm not it's not with the
[00:25:28] validation sometimes or a little bit of fear that you know you write
[00:25:32] a song that you know
[00:25:36] where you can be perceived to be vulnerable or sad or whatever
[00:25:40] I just I'm not scared of that I think that
[00:25:44] that's I just don't want to think about it too much
[00:25:48] I don't want to you know censor myself
[00:25:52] particularly or
[00:25:56] I'm not writing concept records you know I'm just sort of
[00:26:00] and I'm not always spilling my guts all over the page
[00:26:04] but sometimes I am and I don't mind that
[00:26:08] yeah
[00:26:12] you described getting close to burnout what did that look like
[00:26:16] how was that manifesting itself at that point
[00:26:20] I think there was just a sort of
[00:26:24] we'd already been diagnosed and we'd sort of
[00:26:28] kept that under wraps and we didn't really talk about it I don't mean with
[00:26:32] within ourselves we talked about it but we didn't really
[00:26:36] make a press statement or you know tell the
[00:26:40] greater world we kind of was
[00:26:44] dealt with in a very British way or something where we just sort of you know
[00:26:48] stuff up or like well let's just get on with this you know this will be
[00:26:52] we don't need to talk about our feelings you know and I think that
[00:26:56] that was kind of remarkable when I think about it
[00:27:00] I sometimes think about anything how did we do that you know
[00:27:04] was it to protect ourselves was it to protect Kari did it protect
[00:27:08] her was it you know was that healthy I don't know but I think
[00:27:12] that record was quite a difficult record to write you know
[00:27:16] there were more important things happening
[00:27:20] it wasn't it was just quite a
[00:27:24] I found it quite laborious or something
[00:27:28] you know writing some of those songs and it wasn't a
[00:27:32] it wasn't an easy record to write it wasn't an easy period
[00:27:36] and maybe that was partly burnout as well just you know
[00:27:40] needing a bit of a change or a break
[00:27:44] how did that manifest itself on the record
[00:27:48] I mean I think it's quite a sort of miserable song
[00:27:52] sounding record I mean there's don't get me wrong you know we had
[00:27:56] we had a good experience you know we
[00:28:00] we documented a thing you know we did
[00:28:04] as good a job as we'd done in any other records you know
[00:28:08] we tried our best and of course working with Tucker
[00:28:12] Martin was a great experience you know
[00:28:16] champion of ours and he's a great
[00:28:20] producer and he's got a great studio and it was you know
[00:28:24] kind of fun going to Portland and taking ourselves off there but
[00:28:28] you know in the background I think
[00:28:32] in the personal level there was a lot going on you know there was a lot
[00:28:36] of personal issues and people maybe not
[00:28:40] feeling at their best for whatever reasons you know
[00:28:44] I just think I can only speak for
[00:28:48] myself but I would say my thoughts about that time was that it was
[00:28:52] quite a dark time I think in the band's history I think
[00:28:56] you know and how could it not be right
[00:29:00] exactly and Portland was like I remember somebody said
[00:29:04] it might have been me God just as well we're Glaswegians you know because
[00:29:08] we're used to this weather it rains all the time in Portland it's grey
[00:29:12] I mean I don't mind that because I'm used to I think if we had come
[00:29:16] from maybe the south east of England or something and gone to Portland in December
[00:29:20] in January we might have been going what are we doing here it's
[00:29:24] miserable but Portland is not miserable I'm very fond of it
[00:29:28] but it's the weather is quite like
[00:29:32] Glasgow weather actually so it was just a
[00:29:36] making a record in winter time as well you know it's
[00:29:40] sort of short windows of daylight you know
[00:29:44] going into studio first thing in the morning when it's dark
[00:29:48] coming out when it's dark it adds to the mood
[00:29:52] you know I think it adds to the vibe
[00:29:56] How much of that record like actually coming out was a result
[00:30:00] of Carrie really wanting to push through everything
[00:30:04] Well she did want to push through it and
[00:30:08] she went into remission and that's how we
[00:30:12] managed to go and make the record you know she started to get a bit better
[00:30:16] and so we did
[00:30:20] as soon as she was able to do that we
[00:30:24] did that and we went and then of course we couldn't
[00:30:28] quite tour that record the way we toured previous records
[00:30:32] because she got sick again we did a little bit of touring but not
[00:30:36] so much you describe having
[00:30:40] been away from it as this opportunity to reconnect
[00:30:44] and re-engage and really appreciate things that you know at some point
[00:30:48] invariably people will take for granted but
[00:30:52] for a lot of people experiencing death
[00:30:56] up close also has that impact of realizing
[00:31:00] how precious life can be
[00:31:04] and how important it is to do the things that you want to do when you can do them
[00:31:08] Absolutely I mean
[00:31:12] I think that to live your life like that everyday is probably quite kind of impossible
[00:31:16] well for me anyway you know probably very tiring having a match
[00:31:20] Exactly you've been knackered within three days so that's not really
[00:31:24] that possible I don't think but it certainly does make you
[00:31:30] stop and think
[00:31:34] you lose people that you love or when people's lives are cut short
[00:31:38] you know the what could have been and all of that
[00:31:42] but mainly I think it's important to
[00:31:48] carry on and you know carry on it does to make another
[00:31:52] record
[00:31:56] which you know at the time was the last thing
[00:32:00] that anybody wanted to think about but it is the right
[00:32:04] thing to do you know and I think
[00:32:08] there is a lot of her
[00:32:12] I think we sort of took her with us to be honest I feel like we
[00:32:16] have kept her close anyway you know
[00:32:20] When you say it was the right thing to do what do you mean
[00:32:24] I mean to you know to be so overcome
[00:32:28] with grief or you know to have
[00:32:32] for instance made the decision that the band should split up or
[00:32:36] well we can't make another record with her or all that
[00:32:40] I think those decisions are big decisions and they
[00:32:44] can be made sometimes with the right
[00:32:48] intention but it's not necessarily the best thing
[00:32:52] you know we took our time to heal
[00:32:56] and we moved on
[00:33:00] haven't you you've got to get up every day
[00:33:04] and take your
[00:33:08] well be grateful for what you've got
[00:33:12] be grateful for your life and for your
[00:33:16] experiences and I feel like
[00:33:20] I'm not saying I've never been able to do that in my life before but I've certainly felt that
[00:33:24] you know in the past few years
[00:33:28] with this particular opportunity to make music
[00:33:32] and to carry on and have this chance to reconnect with
[00:33:36] fans and you know you realise
[00:33:40] all of a sudden you're a band that have been together for 25 years
[00:33:44] or something and that you're part of people's lives
[00:33:48] and you mean something to folk
[00:33:52] and they mean something to you and
[00:33:56] you've been around the world for the past 20 years but when you stop
[00:34:00] you sort of think ah actually it all makes sense now
[00:34:04] there's no time to reflect if you're constantly moving
[00:34:08] not really and I mean I do I am somebody that does reflect a lot
[00:34:12] maybe in a personal way but in terms of the group
[00:34:16] you know in the band and what we've done together
[00:34:20] and what it's meant to us it's meant everything to me
[00:34:24] and I mean it's been just what I've done with my life
[00:34:28] we alluded to this a little bit earlier but you're not old
[00:34:32] but we're all getting older and it becomes a
[00:34:36] you know it sounds like it's a bit of an ordeal to really orchestrate
[00:34:40] not only just touring but getting that group of people back together
[00:34:44] to put out an album and for that reason
[00:34:48] that's even more reason to take these things seriously
[00:34:54] and really appreciate those moments when they come by
[00:34:58] and I don't know you know realize that everyone can live
[00:35:02] really long lives but there's still a finite amount of time that you've got left to
[00:35:06] really do this thing. Yeah I mean it's logistically an absolute
[00:35:10] nightmare to be in this group frankly. Bands that have been around a while
[00:35:14] that's what happens. It is and it's just part of growing up and having
[00:35:18] kids and you know our little band family is growing
[00:35:22] and there's all sorts of things
[00:35:26] that we have to consider
[00:35:30] but there's a will for us to
[00:35:34] get in a room and
[00:35:38] try to have a good time. I'm interested only
[00:35:42] in doing it
[00:35:46] if we're having a good time
[00:35:50] trying to do it. If it's a headache and there's
[00:35:54] if it becomes too difficult then
[00:35:58] it's not really
[00:36:02] it's not really good for anybody's mental health
[00:36:06] when that kind of thing happens but at the minute
[00:36:10] the record we made it wasn't an easy record to make because we started
[00:36:14] making it before Covid happened and we had to battle through that
[00:36:18] as well. That was a bloody nightmare
[00:36:22] just of course it was
[00:36:26] a nightmare for everybody in the world
[00:36:30] but in a sort of personal way
[00:36:34] it was difficult for us because it was going to be a tall order to make the record
[00:36:38] in the first place and you know and then when that happened
[00:36:42] it got harder but we managed it and I sometimes think
[00:36:46] I can't believe we did that. We really
[00:36:50] slogged our guts out to try and get to accomplish
[00:36:54] that and the producer worked really hard. There was a lot of flying
[00:36:58] in and out of different countries and
[00:37:02] grasping hours
[00:37:06] rehearsing at times that we hadn't rehearsed for years
[00:37:10] people taking their being away from their kids and their families
[00:37:14] and I don't know it was
[00:37:18] it was a hard fought for but we had a brilliant time
[00:37:22] and we've made a record that we're happy with
[00:37:26] and I think we've done a good job. I don't know if that makes me sound
[00:37:30] a bit bigheaded but... I was thinking about this
[00:37:34] and this is definitely not a story that's unique to you especially not after
[00:37:38] the last four years but of really getting to that point
[00:37:42] you've reconnected with this thing, you've built up this momentum, you're really excited to do it
[00:37:46] and then bam.
[00:37:50] Yeah I know but
[00:37:55] there's been a lot... it's like that being in a band anyway
[00:37:59] there's always something you get on the stage at Benny Cassim and the keyboards aren't working
[00:38:03] and we're just like here we go again. It's not quite a global
[00:38:07] pandemic maybe on a smaller scale. In a smaller scale of course
[00:38:11] things will always be there
[00:38:15] to get in your way and you just got to get through it
[00:38:19] you just got to push through.
[00:38:23] How did you maintain a cohesive set of songs
[00:38:27] or cohesive album in spite of the fact that it was split in two?
[00:38:31] I don't know if I feel like it was split in two exactly to be honest because
[00:38:35] I didn't have all the... I had enough songs to get started with
[00:38:39] you know songs were being written as we...
[00:38:43] this time I felt like we should just get started straight away
[00:38:47] the song started to come around about the time we played the Boaty Weekend
[00:38:51] and then it's just started to come after that
[00:38:55] and it was around about that time that I decided
[00:38:59] or I'd suggested I think I'm going to have enough
[00:39:03] songs to make a record and I think some of the songs are
[00:39:07] we've got legs and you know should we just get started
[00:39:11] and we actually... this time we actually got in touch
[00:39:15] with Yari Happaline the producer just to say
[00:39:19] you know Yari I think we want to make
[00:39:23] a record and I think we'd
[00:39:27] like you to come and hold our hand
[00:39:31] and help us make this record and so I just
[00:39:35] send him what I've got you know and he... that's how he works
[00:39:39] he wants to hear the songs you know
[00:39:43] in whatever format you've got them in the basic sense
[00:39:47] and he can hear whether they're
[00:39:51] any good or not as the case might be
[00:39:55] He sounds like someone who's going to be very honest about that. He's very honest. You definitely
[00:39:59] tell you if he thinks that your songs are a load of rubbish
[00:40:03] Have you ever felt so strongly about one that you fought him on that?
[00:40:07] Trying to think. I mean we did have a lot of...
[00:40:14] I mean previously we made two other albums with him there were
[00:40:18] situations shall we say where
[00:40:22] somebody maybe didn't like a thing and he did or vice-versa
[00:40:26] and he will stand his ground but he's never
[00:40:30] he's not like
[00:40:34] he's never going to be unkind about it or make you do something
[00:40:39] against your will but he is quite often right
[00:40:43] and I know that
[00:40:47] and I suppose with this record song that's coming to mind is Big Love
[00:40:51] everybody was a bit confused
[00:40:55] by what was going on you know we'd written this song
[00:40:59] and I think it took a few different turns
[00:41:03] and it's quite often songs will change
[00:41:07] we might bust them and then we might do a different style
[00:41:11] and then we end up coming back to the original thing or whatever
[00:41:15] but this thing started taking on this kind of
[00:41:19] folky type
[00:41:23] thing and I think some of us were just going
[00:41:27] I don't know what's happening here and you know what is this song
[00:41:31] what is this yeah what's going on here this is weird or
[00:41:35] are people going to like this are the kids into this do we sound
[00:41:39] like we're do we sound ancient
[00:41:43] are we really uncool somebody tell me you know is this relevant
[00:41:47] this music what is it you know and at the end of the day he was really
[00:41:51] into that song and so he was really
[00:41:55] he sent me a little sarcastic text message when you know Big Love
[00:41:59] was released as a single because he was going ah cool
[00:42:03] I see yeah you know and he was basically saying I told you
[00:42:07] you were a bit tongue in cheek when you were saying it but do you
[00:42:11] consider relevancy in that process
[00:42:15] not really I mean I don't want to be dismissive I don't want to sound like I'm not taking this
[00:42:19] seriously you know we're serious we try our best
[00:42:23] that's as serious as we get we try our best and we try our best to please
[00:42:27] ourselves individually and each other and you know
[00:42:31] we try to make something beautiful
[00:42:37] you know we try to make something that makes us feel stuff
[00:42:41] and gives us feelings and that's really all we've ever done
[00:42:45] when you've been being away I guess
[00:42:49] you think oh you know you're out of contract you don't have a record label
[00:42:53] you're you know you're sort of thinking oh when did we last make that record
[00:42:57] 10 years ago alright so is anybody going to want to put this record
[00:43:01] you know you never we're not the
[00:43:05] kind of people that assume that we're going to be
[00:43:09] part of not taking things for granted is not taking for granted the fact
[00:43:13] that people are wanting what you're putting into the world exactly
[00:43:17] so we're quite pleased about how it's been received so far
[00:43:21] here we are one of the things that you said
[00:43:25] about the creation of this record that really rang true to me and my own
[00:43:29] experiences in life is trying to
[00:43:33] micromanage less and trying to be less of a control freak
[00:43:37] I'm totally into that that's me
[00:43:42] every day trying to be less of a control freak
[00:43:46] yeah I think it's hard but I think it's important to
[00:43:50] loosen up and it's important to
[00:43:54] you know just
[00:43:58] yeah just take it easy you know
[00:44:02] another thing and that also rang true to me and this is a topic I love
[00:44:06] talking about is
[00:44:10] when you get to these points in your life and you
[00:44:14] look at you look at the things that you always take for granted
[00:44:18] the way of doing things that you always take for granted
[00:44:22] I like talking to people about this as it relates to
[00:44:26] you know things not being punk enough or when
[00:44:30] selling out was still an idea but there's all these little processes that we put
[00:44:34] in our life and we just do the same we do things the same way over
[00:44:38] and over again and really don't have a chance to sit and re-examine
[00:44:42] them but I think that's an important part of getting older
[00:44:46] yeah I think it is I mean there isn't an awful lot of time to sit about
[00:44:50] examining how you do things and how you should change and
[00:44:54] you know I mean I think that
[00:44:58] I tend to want to just in general
[00:45:02] be a nicer person or something the next day or
[00:45:06] be a bit more patient or be a better listener or
[00:45:10] you know be kinder or something like that
[00:45:14] I think that I'm not
[00:45:18] the sort of person that you know clearly I've been doing the same
[00:45:22] things since I was about 23 so I'm not the sort of person that
[00:45:26] re-examines and really changes
[00:45:30] but I'm fine with that I think I used to have maybe an
[00:45:34] issue with that and I used to feel oh I'm not good enough because I'm just doing this all the time
[00:45:38] and I'm not doing this, that and the next but actually I've
[00:45:42] kind of grown into myself but I guess that's what they say happens isn't it
[00:45:46] that you reach an age and you know you just have to
[00:45:50] learn to kind of be a bit kinder to yourself I mean of course and
[00:45:54] I always find it fascinating talking especially to musicians who have effectively
[00:45:58] been doing the same thing with their life since they were you know in their late teens
[00:46:02] or early 20s but the flip side of that is
[00:46:06] you achieved exactly the thing that you've wanted to do early on and that's
[00:46:10] why people change is because they often don't get to do what they want
[00:46:14] to do yeah and I think it's important to remember that because sometimes don't get me wrong
[00:46:18] sometimes I'm absolutely almost banging my head off the wall going
[00:46:22] what have I done this for you know why didn't I get that job in the bank
[00:46:26] what have I done with my life yeah I do everybody says that probably
[00:46:30] and I say it and I think oh this is it's too hard
[00:46:34] or it's logistically a nightmare and I've got moan about it all the time
[00:46:38] you know to the point where I'm like oh this is like a mental illness
[00:46:42] I've got I can't I just can't you know it's like
[00:46:46] you're in the Sopranos we're like I tried to get out but they brought me back in it's like
[00:46:50] that sometimes you know and uh
[00:46:52] keep pulling me back in totally keep pulling me back in
[00:46:56] but then and then I think wait a minute
[00:47:00] when I was 19 years of age
[00:47:04] and I didn't want to get that job in the bank and I wanted
[00:47:08] to say to everybody I'm going to
[00:47:12] be in a band and I'm going to try and be a songwriter you know
[00:47:16] well yeah it happened it didn't it so
[00:47:20] I need to remind myself that more often maybe
[00:47:41] there's a big
