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[00:00:12] I think it's something that I connected, you know, if you connect with music, if you, you know, especially as a kid, you're like, you see that, you know, like the musicians that I was drawn to as a child came from my parents, of course, you know, like looking through your parents record collection. But, but, you know, listening to like old R&B and old soul, there's so much more, there's soul in it, you know, and, and I came up in I was born 80
[00:00:41] 84. So I came up in the 90s. And in that kind of grunge era, and through the 80s, which was more of like a slick, the cool, you know, it's kind of a cool era, and a money era into this kind of disaffected youth grunge era, which I mean, you know, to be fair, the Velvet Underground started that long before, but it kind of resurfaced. And I never connect, I never really connected with that type of music, you know, and I think it was, you know, it was really hip hop was the first thing that really, really grabbed me.
[00:01:11] There were a couple bands I liked when I was younger, that I got from my brother. But when I discovered hip hop, it was like, Oh, this is, this is soul. This is people speaking truth. And they're speaking about the self a lot, which I think, you know, some people are, they're like, you're you rap, or how does that inform future islands? They don't understand that that came long before future islands. And that's like how I learned to write. But, but simply to me, you know, the MC talks about their personal
[00:01:41] stories and their struggles. And in within rock music, a lot of times, it's more of a universal stories, or, well, just using a more universal language to tell a story, you know, hip hop is extremely self reflective. And, you know, it's, I always say it's like the only genre where people literally say their own name, you know, they're like, big up themselves. And that's, that's part of the mask of it is part of the sword of it, you know, it's part of the shield of it,
[00:02:07] is that armor that sometimes we have to give ourselves to make ourselves feel stronger. I just think I think what I connected with, but it connected me back to that soul and like, like, not just saying something that's true, but performing it in that same way, you know, performing it like it really means it and not the disaffected youth or the, you know, the too cool to care. It's like, no, no, I want to, I want to like feel it, you know, you watch, like, I remember I was watching,
[00:02:37] a documentary on Otis Redding and just seeing him, he would, he like his performance style was like, and I watch performers, you know, I watch singers, you know, and I always say like, if you don't have a mic, if you don't have a guitar, if you're not at a piano, you better be doing something. Like if you're holding, if you're just holding a mic.
[00:02:54] Have you ever been watching a band and you're like.
[00:02:56] All the time.
[00:02:57] You're so awkward up there.
[00:02:59] Yeah. And I mean, you know, I can't knock people, you know, people have their own, you know, comfort on stage and what they want.
[00:03:07] And, and I'm, I don't consider, I consider myself a performer before a singer, you know, a singer is something that I'm, I've just done, but performance is where I feel comfortable and try in that connection and connecting with the spirit of music and the songs and all that stuff.
[00:03:26] But, but yeah, putting it, putting it out there, but, but yeah, like watching Otis, I was amazed.
[00:03:33] This is only maybe five or six years ago.
[00:03:35] I saw this because he stood like a tree, you know, his like, his feet are just rooted in the ground.
[00:03:41] He wasn't dancing, but it was all in his upper body.
[00:03:44] And he's just like, it was just like this one performance is like pouring sweat and tears and emotion, but just like rooted in the ground.
[00:03:52] And I was like, I'm going to try that.
[00:03:54] And there's actually, there's a song that we used to play that I would do it.
[00:03:58] Like Otis would do it.
[00:03:59] I like, because of that performance.
[00:04:01] And I wanted to feel what that felt like to not, to not let my legs fly, but to like, what if I, what if I really root myself in this song and this feeling?
[00:04:12] So, so it's also interesting to try those kinds of things.
[00:04:14] I mean, you know, I grew up seeing the old James Brown performances, old Elvis performance.
[00:04:19] I mean, you watch old James Brown.
[00:04:21] Let's back up a second.
[00:04:22] What, what was the, how did that impact the performance going the Otis route?
[00:04:29] I think it just gave me another, it just gave me another frame of reference.
[00:04:33] I mean, part of that song too, was I was trying to root my, my voice more.
[00:04:37] I felt like I was, I was missing and I, and I looked for it.
[00:04:42] It was an old song we used to do called North Star.
[00:04:44] It's off our fifth album.
[00:04:47] And it has a bit of, it has a bit of soul to it.
[00:04:50] And then that was the thing.
[00:04:51] I was just, I don't know.
[00:04:52] I, I don't know.
[00:04:54] I don't know how it changed it.
[00:04:56] I mean, it did.
[00:04:58] And it's something I had to remind myself of.
[00:05:00] I was like, had to remind myself about trying to, to ground, to ground myself to, to feel
[00:05:07] the song more.
[00:05:08] Do you still get hyper self-conscious when you're out there?
[00:05:11] Hmm.
[00:05:12] Not, hmm.
[00:05:15] I mean that the goal is to never be self-conscious, but you know, it's like the better you get
[00:05:23] at something, the more time slows down, you know?
[00:05:27] It's like, it's like if you hit fast, if you hit, you know, a hundred mile fastballs,
[00:05:35] like you, you just see it differently.
[00:05:37] If you're used to hitting like a 9,500 mile per hour fastball and then you get an 88,
[00:05:42] like it's just like slow motion.
[00:05:43] So, so I feel like as I've gotten better as a performer, as I understand my audience,
[00:05:48] my movement, what the, what the different, uh, what the different things do, what I can
[00:05:52] enact, you see things before they come.
[00:05:55] It's almost like in freestyle, like when there was a time when I was, I'm not up to, I do
[00:06:01] not have my chops these days.
[00:06:02] It's been many years, but any freestyle will tell you, you know, when you get to that open
[00:06:07] space, like you see, you see ahead of it.
[00:06:09] You're, you're already connecting the rhyme as you're saying the word, that the word,
[00:06:13] the word that is coming from, you know, from space filtered through you, you're already seeing
[00:06:20] ahead of it.
[00:06:21] And that's like, that's like that time slowing down, um, and kind of being in that flow.
[00:06:26] So, so, you know, there's times where my body hurts, um, or my voice hurts and I'm self-conscious
[00:06:33] about those things about, uh, going too far physically, um, with, you know, either my
[00:06:39] legs or my voice.
[00:06:40] Cause I have to think about the next show too.
[00:06:42] You mean just pushing yourself too far?
[00:06:45] Yes.
[00:06:45] Yeah.
[00:06:46] Yeah.
[00:06:46] Cause you know, in the old days I used to, I would drink a lot.
[00:06:50] I mean, I still, I still have a couple of drinks before I go on stage, but I used to
[00:06:53] have a lot of drinks and that was, you know, when you do that, it's, I did it to numb
[00:06:57] the pain of my body, um, and, and tour and just having some fun.
[00:07:03] But, but then it became about really numbing your body, but then, but then you lose the threshold
[00:07:07] of pain.
[00:07:07] You need pain, pain response exists for a reason so that you don't push past it and hurt
[00:07:13] yourself.
[00:07:13] And so I was just doing that night after night after night.
[00:07:16] Um, and, uh, and I had to find new ways to start looking after myself.
[00:07:21] So those things get in my head.
[00:07:22] I can be self-conscious about an audience, but I'm kind of past that because I know so
[00:07:28] much of like, if the audience isn't connecting in the old days, I used to really go after them.
[00:07:35] You know, if, if I felt that I needed them to get on my side and, or I just needed to
[00:07:41] get, get a reaction from them.
[00:07:42] But I think just through maturity and experience, I've found that I really need to relax and
[00:07:49] go with myself and then, uh, the, they will ultimately connect or not connect.
[00:07:53] You know, you have to, I have to have joy.
[00:07:56] Um, and I have to be honest with the emotion.
[00:08:00] Um, and you know, cause you're not going to catch everybody that the intimidation factor
[00:08:05] of going after the crowd though, it, it creates a very quick reaction.
[00:08:09] People either like, are like, okay, I'm leaving or I'm very engaged.
[00:08:14] But I think if you, I, I think in going a little bit easier, I mean, I did that even
[00:08:19] recently.
[00:08:19] We, we did a tour opening for, uh, Weezer and set 22.
[00:08:25] I think in 20, or maybe that was just last year.
[00:08:28] It might've been last year.
[00:08:29] It was recently.
[00:08:30] Yeah.
[00:08:31] But, uh, their crowd was very confused by me.
[00:08:34] I think people are still fighting online about that.
[00:08:37] And I'm just like, we're just a band.
[00:08:38] And, and your favorite, your favorite band asked us to play like, why?
[00:08:44] I mean, listen, like I've seen Weezer before.
[00:08:46] And, and as far as like Weezer is like weird pairings go, you're like, you're pretty high
[00:08:51] up there.
[00:08:52] Off the mark.
[00:08:52] Like, no, no, no, not at all.
[00:08:54] Quite the contrary.
[00:08:55] Like I've seen them weird, like metal bands in the past, but you've said something again
[00:08:59] in response to that, the late show performance that, that I think it makes a lot of sense
[00:09:05] that, that just, just the act of being polarizing is powerful in and of itself.
[00:09:12] Yes.
[00:09:13] Yeah.
[00:09:14] I think, uh, I mean that, that's the, that's good art.
[00:09:19] You know, that's like what there was once a time, there was once a time that I consider
[00:09:24] myself a visual artist many, many years ago.
[00:09:27] Uh, and that was, and I was, you know, uh, very at that time, you know, 17, 18 years
[00:09:35] old.
[00:09:35] And I was all about, uh, performance art.
[00:09:38] I just discovered performance art and it, it was, uh, it would just kind of blew my mind
[00:09:44] because it was like, well, you have this thing that there's no product.
[00:09:48] You can't sell it.
[00:09:49] The process of doing it is basically the art, you know, there's not like an end thing.
[00:09:54] And it's more about the, it was like these, you know, uh, there's, there's this, uh, artist
[00:10:01] named Tishing Hasai who was known to do, he did like seven or eight one year performances.
[00:10:06] And, and, you know, it was more like a test of will power for the artist.
[00:10:11] But like I said, there was no, I think, you know, he'd spend a year of his time.
[00:10:15] Like one of the performances was like, I can't go inside a building for a year.
[00:10:19] And he lived in New York city.
[00:10:21] And so he basically had to, yeah, he just had to live.
[00:10:23] He lived in the streets and, but you know, he got hounded by police.
[00:10:27] He got thrown in jail.
[00:10:28] He like lost his mind.
[00:10:29] Cause he's like, you're ruining my art.
[00:10:31] And, you know, all that's left is this 10 minute film of, of his year of struggle, you
[00:10:38] know, and you can't sell it.
[00:10:40] So I was really interested by that, that part of the artist who is not, uh, interested in,
[00:10:47] uh, and kind of a monetary gain, but is into the, the process of doing and sacrifice.
[00:10:54] You know, if you talk about old music, like, man, I'm, I'm sorry.
[00:10:58] I'm so tangential.
[00:10:59] If you talk about like folk music, you know, from the old days, I mean, like old country
[00:11:03] blues, uh, country blues.
[00:11:06] Cause, uh, I mean, I mean, you know, the origin Mississippi Delta.
[00:11:10] Yeah.
[00:11:10] There's no money attached, you know, it's just like people who had a story to tell or
[00:11:15] wanted to, and they didn't expect to be recorded in most cases.
[00:11:18] Exactly.
[00:11:18] It was just for like the joy, um, or, you know, going back to the old bar days, just
[00:11:24] like, you know, maybe make some coin telling the news from across the land.
[00:11:27] But, but I, I have been interested with, with that too.
[00:11:33] Cause it is.
[00:11:34] And of course, you know, we live in, we live in this world.
[00:11:36] And, uh, when you're, when you're out there, you're like, I'm in pain.
[00:11:41] This, I better make something doing this.
[00:11:44] Uh, I'm sorry.
[00:11:45] I got way off the mark.
[00:11:46] In a certain sense that maybe, you know, cause it, it, it, what you're describing is
[00:11:51] kind of anti-capitalist.
[00:11:54] Polarization.
[00:11:54] Yeah.
[00:11:54] That almost like runs counter to this, this other drive that you have to really connect
[00:11:59] with people at the same time, you know, in terms of like making art for art's sake, doing
[00:12:04] something that's potentially alienating, but also, you know, performing as you're saying
[00:12:08] in this room and like, you know, beating people over the head with it and really trying to sort
[00:12:13] of connect with them on that level.
[00:12:16] Yeah.
[00:12:16] Yeah.
[00:12:17] Well, like I said, I do, I've, I've, I'm not beating people up as much.
[00:12:22] I'm not beating anybody up.
[00:12:23] I'm not, I'm not going after people as much and I'm trying to find joy in the art and
[00:12:28] even in the pain of the art, which is, you know, so much of what we do is about, you
[00:12:34] know, the struggles and dramas of my life.
[00:12:37] Uh, you know, the guys have allowed me to, the space to sing very personal stories.
[00:12:42] Um, and in a weird way that's, you know, it's cataloged a good bit of my life.
[00:12:47] And you can really, you know, you can listen to our first album and hear just this anger
[00:12:52] and this drive and frustration of a kid, you know, like a 23 year old kid.
[00:12:57] And now it's a much more mature sound because it's really is the journey of, of, you know,
[00:13:05] of people, you know, um, of, of a person, but also the band, you know, like they create
[00:13:10] the bedrock, uh, and they create the bed of emotions, um, for me to, uh, for me to speak
[00:13:16] from.
[00:13:17] And that, that's where I pull the emotions from, you know, whatever I'm going in my, and within
[00:13:21] my life, but, um, you know, making, making people, polarizing people.
[00:13:31] I think the interesting thing about it was that's, you know, you create a, you create
[00:13:36] a dialogue that exists outside of yourself, you know, um, which is, you can, you can look
[00:13:44] at it, you can look at it a few ways, you know, cause it's hard if there's like 51 people
[00:13:49] that love you in 49, that hate you, there's a good chance you're going to be like 49 people
[00:13:54] hate me.
[00:13:56] But, but that, but the thing that they create between themselves, it's just like a fire,
[00:14:02] you know, it's just like two sticks rubbing against one another.
[00:14:05] It creates a fire.
[00:14:06] And that's kind of what that moment did.
[00:14:08] Um, because I, I just don't think people will get to see that is, or at least 10 years
[00:14:13] ago, I don't, I don't think we see that kind of, uh, that performance.
[00:14:18] I mean, a lot of people think thought that was dishonest.
[00:14:21] So, um, and some people are still confused, uh, by my style, but not at a future Island show,
[00:14:28] you know, like our shows, I think people, they know they come there for a reason.
[00:14:33] And I think the, the job that we're, what we're trying to do is to the opposite of alienate
[00:14:39] people.
[00:14:39] It's really to create a space where, uh, people feel comfortable to be free because
[00:14:44] I'm, cause I'm not like, uh, I'm not a typical front person.
[00:14:49] Um, and we are not like, we're very, I wouldn't say we're anti-fashion, but we're not a fashion
[00:14:55] band.
[00:14:56] You know, we, we came, we came up, uh, and through the back door to do this thing.
[00:15:03] Um, as far as like how far we've been able to go, um, and the amount of people that we've
[00:15:08] been able to reach, you know, I don't think that would have happened without, without
[00:15:12] that Letterman performance, of course.
[00:15:14] Um, and with time I've, I like accept that as a positive, but it's hard too, because the
[00:15:21] more eyes that are on you, the harder it is to, uh, to kind of be honest to yourself
[00:15:26] because you feel like you're trying to create for other people.
[00:15:29] So we really, we kind of like that.
[00:15:31] All of that did kind of mess us up for a little bit.
[00:15:34] It, I think it made us out of sorts.
[00:15:37] It was like, Oh, people are finally listening 10 years in.
[00:15:40] And they're finally paying attention.
[00:15:41] So, uh, let's, let's do what they like.
[00:15:44] And we did that for one record.
[00:15:45] And then we're like, ah, that maybe that wasn't what we should have done.
[00:15:49] And we just, we've been trying to get back to our, to ourselves since then.
[00:15:54] And it feel really good about where we got, where we are now.
[00:15:57] Um, uh, very proud of the record we just made and, and really proud of the record before
[00:16:02] that it kind of went under the radar because we put it out in the pandemic.
[00:16:04] But I was reading a recent interview.
[00:16:06] I think it might've been the stereo gum one and, and you told a story that, you know,
[00:16:10] that really connected with me and probably with a lot of other people of this period in your life.
[00:16:16] I think you might, you were probably in high school at the time and you're doing rap battles
[00:16:19] and you had one really bad performance and that, and that really like sidelined you for like,
[00:16:25] for like six months.
[00:16:26] I mean, that was a profound moment for you.
[00:16:28] It was bad, man.
[00:16:30] Well, the, uh, I don't know.
[00:16:34] I'm trying to like liken it to something, uh, getting, it was, it was, uh, extremely emasculating
[00:16:42] that, I mean, that's the word for it, but I don't really, I can't really say another thing.
[00:16:47] I couldn't even get a word out.
[00:16:49] I mean, these people were just booing me, but I was, it was definitely a humbling experience.
[00:16:54] And I was very arrogant when I was 17 and 18, um, which led to a lot of issues, uh, in the next,
[00:17:02] in the coming years, arrogant more towards, uh, my ability, but you know, most 18 year olds also
[00:17:09] think they're invincible, uh, which I did, which, you know, I got, uh, you know, sold drugs for years
[00:17:15] and then got addicted.
[00:17:16] And, and, uh, that, that was, that's more what I'm speaking to, but, but that, uh,
[00:17:23] uh, that moment getting beaten a freestyle battle really bad.
[00:17:29] I couldn't even get words out because people were just booing over me.
[00:17:32] I mean, I really wasn't fair, but just that feeling of like, I can't do this.
[00:17:38] Uh, I, I couldn't really wrap for like six months.
[00:17:42] Uh, and, and, but, but the thing it taught me was, you know, to be humble, but also,
[00:17:48] and to not go pick a fight because I went to a rival school and was like, bring me your best MC.
[00:17:53] And then I got, and then I got very quickly out of the place.
[00:17:59] And I was like, bring me your best.
[00:18:04] Um, oh, it was bad.
[00:18:06] And then, uh, and, but it, it also, it spoke to what I kind of already knew, but which is
[00:18:12] the power of words, you know, in words have, uh, so they're just, they're, they're the world
[00:18:20] world to me.
[00:18:21] You know, they, they are my world.
[00:18:23] Like words gave me power as a young kid.
[00:18:26] They gave me a voice.
[00:18:27] They gave me an identity.
[00:18:29] Um, it gave me, you know, it was my work is my play.
[00:18:33] Um, and so much joy has come from that.
[00:18:36] You know, they're, the word is, is very important to me.
[00:18:40] So to be destroyed by the word, to have the word taken away from me, it made me, you know,
[00:18:46] also, you know, be humble to the fact that, uh, this is a powerful tool.
[00:18:51] And so, you know, I had a teacher around that, uh, shortly after this happened or was
[00:18:56] that, no, that was my senior year.
[00:18:57] So it would have been before who I remember, this was at like a, a special art school,
[00:19:03] um, for kids that I, that I was nominated and got into in my, between my, right before
[00:19:11] my senior high school.
[00:19:12] And I had this teacher that was like, he was basically like, you are a slacker.
[00:19:19] You don't like, you don't give a shit, but you're, but you have a great gift.
[00:19:27] And you can, you can use that gift, you know, uh, or, or you can abuse it.
[00:19:33] He didn't say that I could, I could lose it, but he's like, you literally have a power on
[00:19:38] stage.
[00:19:39] And he told me this is a 17 year old kid.
[00:19:42] Um, and you know, are you going to use it for, for good or bad?
[00:19:45] And then, you know, and then I get destroyed on the hunt for a battle.
[00:19:50] And then I'm like, I think I'm going to rethink, use it for evil.
[00:19:55] Yeah.
[00:19:57] I think I want to build, I don't, you know, within the freestyle world, it's like, you want
[00:20:01] to build or you want to battle.
[00:20:02] I was definitely more of a builder, but, but, uh, you know, that's the thing.
[00:20:06] Like I still, I see so much of that still to this day.
[00:20:08] I think about my, you know, my old teacher, um, and, and the gift that he gave me, which
[00:20:14] was really a, a boost of confidence, but also it was, it was a slap to be like, wake up,
[00:20:20] you know, don't, you know, you use this thing that you have.
[00:20:24] You can, you can do something good with this thing.
[00:20:26] Um, and I feel, I feel like I've been able to, to do that.
[00:20:31] I've always loved the stage, you know, and I understand the power of it.
[00:20:35] I understand the power of the position and the position of a band that people care about,
[00:20:41] that they're like, you're a part of my life.
[00:20:43] And there, there's, there's pressure in that.
[00:20:46] There's responsibility in that, um, to continue forward, to continue to give people, uh, you
[00:20:54] know, points to reflect upon within my own life, to be honest.
[00:20:59] Um, which is something that I still deal with, you know, like it's hard to, it's isolating
[00:21:08] sometimes.
[00:21:08] Um, and I deal with, uh, social anxiety that's grown as the band has grown.
[00:21:17] I think because of that responsibility.
[00:21:20] So, so I, these are all things that I, I work, work on and I'm working on, um, you know, through
[00:21:27] self-care and therapy and things like that.
[00:21:30] And, but, but, you know, and that's, that's like life too.
[00:21:33] I feel lucky that I have the ability to both do what I do and support, uh, myself in that,
[00:21:40] you know, in taking care of myself to be, to be able to do both things.
[00:21:43] Cause there was a time in my life where I was like giving 120% on stage and then giving 120%
[00:21:48] of myself off stage.
[00:21:50] And then I would just became a, a raw body, you know, I was just so I was, and I was dead
[00:21:57] and inside, um, and, and afraid.
[00:22:00] Um, so yeah, I don't know.
[00:22:04] Social anxiety is a weird one.
[00:22:05] I, you know, I experienced it too.
[00:22:07] And it just seems so completely arbitrary sometimes because, you know, like I've, I do
[00:22:13] this job.
[00:22:14] Um, I'm a writer for living, but I interview people on stage and I could talk to strangers,
[00:22:18] but I go to like a party where I don't know anybody and that's where I just completely
[00:22:23] shut down.
[00:22:24] And that's been a really difficult thing for me to, to reconcile in my life because again,
[00:22:28] on the face of it, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
[00:22:30] What?
[00:22:31] Just that you are an outgoing and gregarious person and yet you have the issue with.
[00:22:35] There's certain even like potentially lower pressure situations where I just completely
[00:22:40] shut down.
[00:22:40] Well, but it's also easy to think that those are higher pressure situations, you know, and,
[00:22:46] and, and feel that, uh, I mean, to me that like, and that, that, you know, that's a bad,
[00:22:56] I don't know if that's like a form of masking or something where you're like, you know, on
[00:23:00] stage, I feel, I know what I'm supposed to do.
[00:23:04] You know, like, like you've got a role.
[00:23:07] I've got a role.
[00:23:08] I'm supposed to be there and, and we're going to have fun.
[00:23:12] And I've got my, I've got my, my friends who I, who I trust, who trust me behind me.
[00:23:17] Like, so we're, and we're all together, you know, so, so there's something for me to do.
[00:23:22] And when I go to a party, I'm like you, I'm like, what am I supposed to do?
[00:23:27] Like, uh, it's, it's a different thing.
[00:23:31] I talked about that recently in an interview, just like, you know, going to a Christmas
[00:23:35] party is like the most stressful thing I can ever imagine.
[00:23:39] And then, and then you're like, oh, I have a friend here.
[00:23:42] Then it's okay.
[00:23:43] You know, you just kind of need, if you have one person to talk to that, that it's all
[00:23:48] right.
[00:23:49] You can have a good time.
[00:23:50] But, but I'm also, I'm often going places and have already plotted my escape.
[00:23:58] Um, but I'm also like, like you said, it's, it's, it is a strange thing.
[00:24:04] Cause I'm kind of introverted and on my own, I'm somewhat reclusive.
[00:24:09] I'm really happy with my small, my small circle.
[00:24:13] You know, I have my partner and, and, uh, and that's, and, you know, my, my friends, my,
[00:24:20] my few close friends.
[00:24:22] There was a time in my life where I was like, I have so many friends.
[00:24:25] And then I went through a really bad relationship.
[00:24:27] And a lot of my friends hurt me through that.
[00:24:30] And I was like, oh, maybe, maybe that's not real.
[00:24:35] And it was a hard time, but then it made me realize like the importance of the, of, of
[00:24:40] my real friends and who my real friends were.
[00:24:42] It made my world a little bit smaller, but, uh, but yeah, I, I don't know.
[00:24:48] I think I'm just trying to say like, we have to give ourselves grace in that time to be like,
[00:24:53] it's just kind of how I am and how I feel.
[00:24:56] About five or six years ago, I stopped drinking, you know, for like health reasons and other
[00:25:01] reasons as well.
[00:25:02] And a lot of times it's not until you stop doing it when you really realize like how important
[00:25:08] that was as a social lubricant.
[00:25:10] And I, and I'm wondering like for you, you know, you're describing this period and, and
[00:25:16] I think most of us have been through this where like everything is going wrong, you know,
[00:25:20] after, you know, you're, you're down yourself, you know, there's some self-medication.
[00:25:23] Happening during that period.
[00:25:25] Um, was, was that to a certain extent, a way to deal with your anxiety?
[00:25:29] Yeah.
[00:25:30] Yeah.
[00:25:30] I mean, drugs, I was, I was, I had a cocaine addiction, so I was like,
[00:25:35] That really makes you the life of party, right?
[00:25:36] Well, it's supposed to.
[00:25:39] My whole style.
[00:25:40] I mean, I was like, I was not a social user, which is when you create real problems, you
[00:25:46] know, it's just like, if you drink alone, then you're an alcoholic and doing coke alone
[00:25:51] is like even kind of next level with that.
[00:25:53] It's really next level.
[00:25:55] And it was me.
[00:25:55] It was literally, I actually, I've written a lot of lines about, about that simple.
[00:26:01] The, it's a very, to me, it's like paradigm, or it's just like a big, it's a huge thing
[00:26:07] in my world, but that, that staring at your own face in the mirror that you're like undoing
[00:26:12] yourself and you're just seeing your face come apart and you're just like, and you just
[00:26:16] keep going in and you just keep looking at yourself over and over in that mirror as you're
[00:26:20] just doing lines after lines.
[00:26:22] Specifically, like the kind of the shift in perception that you get on drugs, you mean?
[00:26:25] Well, well, just more, well, I mean, that's what I was searching for.
[00:26:29] A lot of times it was about, I wanted to, I mean, I mean, of course you're courting death.
[00:26:36] I mean, that's what I was doing.
[00:26:37] I was courting the end.
[00:26:42] And it was, I mean, I think it was, it was darker than just an escapism.
[00:26:48] It may have started as an escapism and a bit of fun, but then it, it was very much like,
[00:26:53] oh, this takes me to a place, you know?
[00:26:56] Cause I, when I first was starting to use a lot, I was writing a lot and I felt that I
[00:27:01] was creating, uh, you know, positive things, but, but, uh, I wasn't.
[00:27:07] And then when I got out of that after two and a half years, I was basically like a gram a
[00:27:11] day for two and a half years.
[00:27:14] I re I didn't have anything.
[00:27:16] I was completely, I was completely gone.
[00:27:19] And, um, that, that spirit of myself that, that loved to write and trusted myself and,
[00:27:25] uh, that confidence I had in myself as an artist was all gone.
[00:27:30] So it took a few years to, to gain that back and to trust myself to go in.
[00:27:35] But, you know, I, I would slip, I would slip, uh, once or twice a year, uh, for many years.
[00:27:41] I'm now like, I'm two and a half years clean.
[00:27:47] And that's, I hadn't ever gone a year since I first got clean, clean, you know, like I
[00:27:52] said, you know, once or twice a year, I would, I would slip, you know, when I would have a
[00:27:57] hard time and I would be like, I get a case of beer and a couple grams and I would go and
[00:28:02] sit in a room somewhere and look at myself in a mirror and be like, you fucking suck.
[00:28:08] And, and then I would come out of that room the next day feeling horrible.
[00:28:12] And I would be like, okay, we're gonna, we're, you know, and it was all about touching.
[00:28:17] I would always say it was about touching the bottom.
[00:28:19] Like I needed to touch the bottom so I could come up again, you know?
[00:28:23] Um, but I was also, that's a very dangerous, is a very dangerous game that I was playing,
[00:28:29] um, alone, you know, with no one to watch me to know for no one check me.
[00:28:35] Um, and there was one night I just woke up covered in blood on like my floor and I had
[00:28:41] to go and play a festival and I had to go play a festival in Alabama the next day.
[00:28:48] So I wake up, I had, oh man, this is the craziest, I was pissing out the window in some fog and
[00:28:54] I just, I fell asleep.
[00:28:56] Uh, and I, I fell backwards.
[00:28:58] I didn't fall out the window, but I fell backwards and I hit myself on the bed over my eye.
[00:29:02] I still have a little scar.
[00:29:05] I was passed out and I woke up and my eye was shut.
[00:29:08] I thought, I thought something happened to my eye and I, I went to the bathroom in the
[00:29:13] dark and washed my eye off and then my eye opened up and it was just like this open wound.
[00:29:17] So those kinds of moments and, you know, and that's the whole thing, you know, that I went
[00:29:22] another two years of, of still like courting death every once in a while.
[00:29:28] And, uh, and, and touching the bottom until I was like, uh, I have to go to therapy.
[00:29:36] I'm in therapy now and that's helped me out to be accountable to myself.
[00:29:42] Insofar as, you know, you've been able to kind of extrapolate that and in conversations
[00:29:45] with your therapist, like what is that impulse?
[00:29:48] To, uh, to self immolate.
[00:29:51] Courting, courting death as you put it.
[00:29:54] Uh, that's just, I don't know if he's ever told me.
[00:29:59] I mean, I think that's for me to find.
[00:30:02] I mean, in my experience, you know, I've had, I've had suicidal ideation since I was like
[00:30:09] 13 and never, never really close to, you know, that that's the thing I would, I would never
[00:30:16] do it to myself.
[00:30:17] Um, and that's always my thinking.
[00:30:21] Like the things that have kept me here, I've sung about a lot.
[00:30:25] In future Island songs, I've sung it about a lot in Hemlock.
[00:30:29] The things that have kept me here are remembering the people that I love and the people that
[00:30:34] love me.
[00:30:36] Um, because those feelings that make you not want to be here is about feeling unloved and
[00:30:41] misunderstood, isolated, alone.
[00:30:44] Um, and so you say, or overwhelmed, you know, overwhelmed by the amount of work you need to
[00:30:52] do the things that you can't imagine having to do that you have to do.
[00:30:57] Um, and I guess probably being close to it, you know, I, there's a thing that I've thought
[00:31:03] about a lot.
[00:31:05] Did I put that in a song?
[00:31:08] I don't, I don't, when I was, when I was like nine years old, I lost, I was like, I was
[00:31:14] between, it was between eight, eight and nine or nine and 10.
[00:31:17] I lost like three of my grandparents in a year.
[00:31:19] And I think that that, that like amount of death at that time made me very, I wasn't like a,
[00:31:29] I wasn't afraid of it for myself.
[00:31:34] Um, but it just made me very, uh, aware of death.
[00:31:38] And I think, I, I think I was probably actually depressed and confused and didn't know what to
[00:31:45] do with it.
[00:31:46] Cause, cause I mean, a lot of, a lot of that is a lot of people just don't think about
[00:31:51] suicide, you know?
[00:31:53] And for those people, I'm like, which is great.
[00:31:55] I'm like, I'm like, how do you not?
[00:31:59] I know there's a, there's like an old Norm Macdonald clip where he's like, you've never
[00:32:02] thought about that.
[00:32:03] You know, like the end of all this misery and pain, the great escape.
[00:32:08] You've never thought about that.
[00:32:10] Uh, so, so, you know, I, I see that.
[00:32:15] I see that edge and that's what, that's where cocaine took me was to that edge, you know?
[00:32:22] And, and, and, and courting, I say courting it.
[00:32:27] Cause I wasn't like, I hope I die today, but it was like, if I do, I did, I didn't do
[00:32:32] it on purpose.
[00:32:33] And I, I like, I, he died doing what he loved.
[00:32:37] Uh, cause he's a coke, he's a coke head.
[00:32:41] Um, you know, and shit, man with fentanyl now, I mean, it's even, it's just really, it's
[00:32:49] really scary, man.
[00:32:51] It's really scary, but, uh, but it, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's just like a part
[00:32:57] of some weird part of me.
[00:32:59] That is also the reason that I am an artist.
[00:33:01] It's the reason that I create, it's the reason that I sing about the personal stuff.
[00:33:08] Cause I'm trying to find, I'm trying to find it for myself.
[00:33:14] You know, the positive part of the band is that, uh, the people that need to find it have
[00:33:19] found it.
[00:33:20] You know, there, there are certain songs that are, that we've written that, uh, you know,
[00:33:26] and speaking about this, uh, in particular, say like thrill, thrill is maybe one of the
[00:33:31] only songs where I've, it's explicitly about, uh, drug addiction and my own drug addiction.
[00:33:36] Um, from future Island standpoint, there's a lot of that within a Hemlock, Hemlock earned
[00:33:42] stuff, but, but I haven't really, I haven't really played with that too much in future
[00:33:47] islands just because it's such a, I don't know if it's a scary subject for the guys, even
[00:33:52] though, you know, we have two Mike, our drummer is like almost 14 years sober AA, you know,
[00:33:59] he's a, he goes to meetings on the road.
[00:34:02] He's a, he's a sponsor to many people.
[00:34:04] And, and he's like just such a, a really positive, he's such a positive force within the band.
[00:34:11] He's been with us for, uh, 10 years, almost, I think he's right on coming up right on 10
[00:34:16] years now.
[00:34:17] But so we actually have, I'm sorry, almost 11 years.
[00:34:20] Uh, we, we actually have a lot of this within the band.
[00:34:25] William, William, our basis is I think 11 years sober now.
[00:34:29] Maybe he just got 10.
[00:34:30] Um, so, and that, that's the thing for bands with it's like, people were like sex, drugs
[00:34:36] and rock and roll, right?
[00:34:37] And it's like, well, not if you keep going, because when you keep going, everyone becomes
[00:34:41] vegan straight edge by the, by the end.
[00:34:44] If you're lucky.
[00:34:45] Yeah.
[00:34:45] Yeah.
[00:34:46] If they're going to be able to do it, um, for too long.
[00:34:49] And so, so there's, there's also resources in that sense.
[00:34:52] Like Mike can really, I can have those kinds of conversations with Mike.
[00:34:57] He understands the, those feelings.
[00:34:59] He went through those same feelings.
[00:35:00] That's what led him to the crazy places that he went that, that then got him sober.
[00:35:06] Um, and, uh, and so it's, there's like a positive reflection there, but it's, it's a, it's a,
[00:35:12] it's a tricky line to walk.
[00:35:14] I think within, within Hemlock where it's just me, you know, it's completely me and my soul
[00:35:21] on the line.
[00:35:21] Like I'm really able to say even as open as I am within future islands, like Hemlock
[00:35:27] is really the cutting diary.
[00:35:29] You know, it's, it's really going, uh, and not, you know, there's so much in there.
[00:35:35] There's so many words, uh, that I don't know if everybody catches everything, but, uh,
[00:35:41] but that's, that, that's the thing.
[00:35:43] That's the long, the long play of like, uh, exercising, uh, Oh, or exercising that, that
[00:35:51] like demon and, uh, and getting things out.
[00:35:54] Cause also it's about, you know, when I write a song and I say something that I, the words
[00:35:59] that I want to live by myself, you know, that I, I feel are important for me to live by.
[00:36:04] I, I write them down.
[00:36:06] I look at that.
[00:36:07] I sing it a hundred times and then you record it and you play it live.
[00:36:12] And then you saw those people staring back at you.
[00:36:14] And then all of a sudden you're accountable to all of these people to live in that way
[00:36:18] that you wish to live.
[00:36:21] And, and then it may, I, it's, it's, it's something that has made me stronger, um, and
[00:36:27] made me more reflective is actually the act of the act of doing the act of performing
[00:36:33] and living.
[00:36:33] And, uh, just trying to be honest with the audience in more ways than just like through
[00:36:38] the, through the words, you know?
[00:36:40] Um, it's like, no, you guys are like, you're really important.
[00:36:44] I don't think you realize how important you are.
[00:36:48] You know, uh, there's a song we have called a dream of you and me where it says, uh, I
[00:36:54] wrestle by the sea, a loneliness in me.
[00:36:57] I asked myself for peace and I found it at my feet.
[00:37:00] And then the thing that I realized, I just gave my, I just got chills a little bit.
[00:37:03] The thing that I realized very recently, and I've said to the audiences a few times,
[00:37:07] which is like, I don't think you realize that you're the sea.
[00:37:10] Like you are the sea, you're the sea of people.
[00:37:13] I asked myself for peace and I have this, I have this place where I feel at home that
[00:37:19] I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm supposed to be here.
[00:37:23] You know, is that clear to you?
[00:37:24] When you were writing the piece or is that something that's really developed over time?
[00:37:28] No, that metaphor.
[00:37:30] No, that's, that's something developed.
[00:37:31] And like I said, uh, I think we find those, we, we, we find those, those things in the
[00:37:38] moments that we need to in, in writing, especially, uh, I'm not like a, I'm not a concept writer.
[00:37:48] I very, I rarely write conceptually.
[00:37:50] Um, I try to write very, I like, I like to write on inspiration and feeling.
[00:37:56] It's like heart over mind, uh, to be less intellectual and more human.
[00:38:04] It's hard to do, especially if it's somebody who suffers from, you know, anxiety and is,
[00:38:07] and lives in their own head a lot.
[00:38:08] Well, that, but that's where you take it down.
[00:38:10] You know, you write the clever line and you're like, fuck that.
[00:38:14] You know, don't be clever.
[00:38:16] Don't be clever right now.
[00:38:18] You know, be honest.
[00:38:19] There's a difference.
[00:38:20] There's a real difference between being clever and being honest.
[00:38:28] Um, and it's the lines, you know, in, in future islands, I'm not trying to be clever and funny
[00:38:33] ever.
[00:38:34] If I write a clever, funny line for Hemlock, then I'm, I tickle myself and I'm like,
[00:38:38] that's going in there.
[00:38:39] I've had this conversation with people recently, or I, you know, it's like, Hey, do you think
[00:38:42] that I would be further along in my career if I didn't joke so often?
[00:38:47] Because, you know, it is a way of sort of diffusing the situation.
[00:38:51] It's a good skill to have and, and it's important, but you know, it does just, it's an
[00:38:56] easy way to derail things.
[00:38:57] Yeah, totally.
[00:38:58] I mean, when I did, uh, I did an acting gig, uh, a couple of years ago through 22 and I
[00:39:06] got scouted for this part and, uh, did it cause I was going through a crazy time in my
[00:39:13] life and I was like, what do I have to lose?
[00:39:16] I guess I'll try this thing.
[00:39:17] They sent me up with this acting coach.
[00:39:19] Um, and, uh, he, he made, he was awesome and he just made me feel really comfortable
[00:39:24] and it was cool cause we only had like six sessions and he kind of helped me get ready
[00:39:29] for my first day.
[00:39:30] And then it was, and then I was on my own, but in those sessions, there was a moment where
[00:39:34] we were reading this one scene.
[00:39:36] Um, and he was like, why, why do you keep smiling and kind of like laughing in the scene?
[00:39:44] And I'm like, well, that's the guy, you know, he's, he's telling this really, uh, intense
[00:39:49] story.
[00:39:49] And he's, uh, he's, he's, you know, he's, he's, he's diffusing his emotion cause he's
[00:39:56] uncomfortable.
[00:39:57] And then he's like, I, I don't think that's what he's doing.
[00:40:00] I think you're, I think that's what Sam would do if Sam was the character, Sam would laugh,
[00:40:06] laugh it off to not, uh, look at the truth.
[00:40:09] Um, and, and, uh, not make it uncomfortable, but I don't think that's what the character
[00:40:14] would do.
[00:40:15] And he was like, now, now do it, read it again and try not to smile or like scoff or laugh.
[00:40:22] And I did it.
[00:40:23] And, uh, he was like, how, how do you feel?
[00:40:26] And I was like, I feel fucking crazy, man.
[00:40:28] He's like, do you, do you feel it?
[00:40:30] He's like, cause I saw it in your face.
[00:40:32] And I was like, yeah, no, I feel like all of these, I feel extremely emotional right
[00:40:37] now.
[00:40:37] And he's like, yeah, that's cause you didn't, you didn't blow off that, that steam.
[00:40:43] You let the emotion sit in your chest and I could see it in your face.
[00:40:46] And he's like, that's what, that's what you need to do.
[00:40:49] I mean, it was very simple lessons he taught me, but I was able to take that.
[00:40:53] And a lot of things he taught me, I was able to take to the stage, you know, as much
[00:40:57] as I was able to take things from the stage into the, into the TV show, I was also able
[00:41:02] to, to take what I learned there back onto the stage and try to sit, you know, and you
[00:41:07] learn in therapy, like sit in your emotion.
[00:41:09] Don't just react, um, or, or shut down, disassociate, but like, feel it, feel what it feels like.
[00:41:16] Like, which is, you know, important to hear as a, as a person who has a, you know, substance,
[00:41:24] substance issues where you're just like, I'm gonna order some drugs or a pizza.
[00:41:28] It's like, no, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna feel this for a minute and then I'm going to reconsider.
[00:41:33] Um, but, uh, so I keep getting off tangent.
[00:41:36] I just.
[00:41:36] No, it's great.
[00:41:37] It's, it's conversational.
[00:41:38] Um, I mean, you know, so, so art Lord, um, was that, was that diffusing?
[00:41:44] Um, art Lord was like art Lord was performance art, but there's a sense in which, cause you
[00:41:50] know, it was humorous and it wasn't, did you not take yourselves super seriously?
[00:41:55] Uh, well, the thing was art Lord, the concept was not supposed to be funny.
[00:42:01] And then it was hilarious.
[00:42:04] And, and the funny thing, so art Lord came about and that was, you know, me and Garrett,
[00:42:10] our keyboard player, we were best friends through high school.
[00:42:12] We went off to college together.
[00:42:14] Um, I went into the art school at East Carolina university.
[00:42:17] Um, and then in the fall of O2.
[00:42:21] And then I met William in like our first day, we had like three classes together.
[00:42:26] And by the second class, we were walking to class together.
[00:42:28] Like, Oh, you're heading there.
[00:42:30] We just became fast friends.
[00:42:31] We started like immediately.
[00:42:34] We're like, we should start a performance art collective.
[00:42:36] And then we like came up with the name for it.
[00:42:39] It's still the, it's still the LLC that we, we like operate future islands under is ideas
[00:42:44] for house crafts, which was the initial ideas for house craft crafts.
[00:42:52] Sketchy.
[00:42:52] Yeah.
[00:42:54] We're like, we're like ideas for mouse pads, light beers for house dads.
[00:42:58] Uh, uh, and we would just go on and on.
[00:43:02] And, um, it was just, it was like this weird inside joke.
[00:43:06] And we're like, well, that'll be the name of our collective.
[00:43:08] And then we started, you know, we started talking about me about having a band like over
[00:43:13] that first Christmas.
[00:43:14] And then the concept was born.
[00:43:19] But, but yeah, it started off as a concept band where I was this, this, uh, the German
[00:43:24] Lord of art self-proclaimed who had, who at the age of 18 was so famous that it just became
[00:43:29] too much for him.
[00:43:30] So he, he ran, he ran off into the, into the woods, never to return again, but he did return
[00:43:37] to the small town of Greenville, North Carolina with his, uh, with his self portraits that he
[00:43:42] brought to life.
[00:43:43] So it was like, but the, you know, the, the concept was about how we treat like our kind
[00:43:52] of like celebrity within our society, like rock stars, um, you know, famous actors, uh, art
[00:43:59] stars and how they can kind of be like pretentious dickheads.
[00:44:03] Uh, and, and we're still just like hanging on their every word.
[00:44:07] We just want, we just want from them.
[00:44:09] They can be horrible, but we want from them.
[00:44:11] So originally the art Lord came out and is just like, I hate you all, but you love me.
[00:44:17] Aren't I wonderful?
[00:44:17] And then people are like, ah, this is a man, you know, they just fell in love with this
[00:44:23] character and it proved itself.
[00:44:25] If you know what I'm saying?
[00:44:26] Like it was a Will Ferrell and Zoolander basically.
[00:44:29] Precisely.
[00:44:29] And it was sprockets, you know, it was like, uh, well, I mean, we just want, we were,
[00:44:33] we wanted to be like craft work, you know, and it, but so it was, it was born as, as the
[00:44:39] performance art, but you know, within eight months we had kind of run out of these kinds
[00:44:45] of concept songs.
[00:44:46] And I'd never written songs before, um, outside of a rap verse.
[00:44:51] So it was all new to me.
[00:44:53] Garrett had never played the keyboard before.
[00:44:55] William had never played the bass before.
[00:44:56] So really all learning together in this new thing.
[00:44:59] And that, that's what made it kind of more, it wasn't like a band that we were taking
[00:45:04] serious.
[00:45:04] It was like, uh, it was about like creating these happenings, bringing people together and
[00:45:09] like having a good time.
[00:45:10] But then once we kind of rent through, written through that, the initial concept, we started
[00:45:15] writing songs that were, uh, that were, they were better because we were getting better.
[00:45:20] But for me, the lyrics were much more personal, but I was able to hide them.
[00:45:25] You know, I was able to hide them behind the mask of the character.
[00:45:29] So I could sing about like the isolation of being this great artist, you know, the isolation
[00:45:35] of being so great makes you feel so alone.
[00:45:38] Um, and, and quite literally I would be like, I, but I feel isolated, you know?
[00:45:45] So, so it was like honest to, honest to a point, but I got high behind it.
[00:45:49] So it was very, the character, the humor within it, um, and the, and the actual costumery was,
[00:45:57] it was all, yeah, definitely diffusing the, the truth behind it, which was that, uh, there
[00:46:04] was pain behind it, you know?
[00:46:06] Cause, cause that's, the art Lord was like a pain figure.
[00:46:10] Um, he was, he was supposed to be, he was supposed to be pained and alone, but there was
[00:46:15] a part of that, that was, that was definitely me, you know, all, all along.
[00:46:20] So it was a crazy transition.
[00:46:21] I'm sorry.
[00:46:22] Um, uh, it was, it was a crazy transition when we went to future islands.
[00:46:27] Cause all of a sudden I had to actually be the face of my words.
[00:46:32] You know what I mean?
[00:46:33] I could, could no, I could no longer be like, that's, that's not me.
[00:46:36] That's just a character.
[00:46:37] I had to, and, and for the first, uh, first few months, it was, uh, I didn't really like
[00:46:43] it.
[00:46:44] I didn't like that feeling of, of having to, to own that.
[00:46:50] And then I, and then I, and then I started to feel like the release of it, what, how it
[00:46:57] felt to, to, uh, to get those things out and be like, you know, this, this is me.
[00:47:05] And, and at the same time, uh, this is like right after, cause like we started the band
[00:47:11] in February 06 and the end of June 06, I left Greenville and got, you know, got out of my
[00:47:19] drug, drug, uh, addiction.
[00:47:22] Uh, I mean, you know, you're always an addict.
[00:47:25] Um, that doesn't stop, but, but I just, well, I didn't use every day again.
[00:47:29] Um, and, and it took me years to kind of get back and find myself writing again.
[00:47:35] Um, and so it was all, that was part of the process too, of becoming comfortable in my own
[00:47:39] skin in front of people as myself.
[00:47:42] Now I'd never felt that way with, you know, doing freestyle battles or that kind of stuff.
[00:47:48] I felt really comfortable.
[00:47:49] The, the singing makes it slightly more vulnerable.
[00:47:52] You know, the form of, the form of a rap allows a lot more, like I was saying before,
[00:47:56] like it allows armor, you know.
[00:47:58] Boasting is kind of built in.
[00:48:00] Yeah.
[00:48:01] Yeah.
[00:48:01] Boasting.
[00:48:02] And it's, you know, that's, that's kind of what hip hop was born on, but being strong,
[00:48:08] you know, being strong in telling hard stories was what I connected with, like listening
[00:48:16] to Karis one, you know, uh, early on.
[00:48:19] And that's, that's like what, that's what he gave me.
[00:48:24] And that's what I do with future islands.
[00:48:25] So that's like the thing that it's, it's so connected.
[00:48:29] Um, at the top, I was commenting on, on your earnestness, but another thing that really
[00:48:34] jumps out to me about you and the way you go through the world is that you, you are very
[00:48:40] self-analytical to the point where you're able to sort of go back and describe why you
[00:48:47] were doing what you were doing.
[00:48:49] Um, I mean, one, is that something that, that only really comes with hindsight?
[00:48:53] And two, is there a point in which, um, especially as it pertains to art that you can be overly
[00:49:01] analytical to the point that it kind of ruins the thing?
[00:49:03] Oh yeah, definitely.
[00:49:05] I mean, uh, being over analytical as well as an artist keeps a lot of great artists from
[00:49:12] ever being heard.
[00:49:15] You know, that perfectionism, uh, is both like really important to being an artist and
[00:49:22] also can be damning.
[00:49:24] Um, you know, if you're not, at some point you have to be like, this isn't mine anymore.
[00:49:29] Cause that is essentially what you're doing when you go from, from creating and pouring
[00:49:35] over something, um, you know, in and out of the studio, recording it and releasing it.
[00:49:40] Once you release it, it's not yours.
[00:49:42] And I don't know if, you know, journalists or even, uh, music lovers or music haters, uh,
[00:49:50] understand how hard it is when someone's just like, I heard two songs, I hate this record.
[00:49:55] And you're just like, I spent two years.
[00:49:58] Yeah.
[00:49:59] I was thinking about this too, like, as it relates to your hip hop career where people
[00:50:02] are like, Oh, you rap too.
[00:50:04] Like it's a side thing, but really it's this thing you've been passionate about for your
[00:50:07] entire life.
[00:50:08] Yeah.
[00:50:08] Well that, I mean, that's one of the reasons that I don't really blast it out there.
[00:50:12] Like I, I don't really, I don't really promote it because also I don't want it to become,
[00:50:19] you know, future islands is like, it's my art, but it's also become my job, you know?
[00:50:25] Um, and there's a lot of business involved.
[00:50:28] There's a lot of decisions that need to be made.
[00:50:30] There's a lot of money that goes around.
[00:50:32] There's families that need to be fed, uh, not just within the band, but you know, the
[00:50:36] crew, um, that, uh, are, you know, the amazing people that go out on the road with us, you
[00:50:42] know, like those things go into when I'm tired and I'm like, I don't know if I want a tour
[00:50:46] next year.
[00:50:46] It's like, but people need to make money and it's not just the band.
[00:50:51] It's the, it's the crew.
[00:50:52] Like they need to work and we, we don't want them to, you know, we don't want them to just
[00:50:57] go think that we've forsaken them, you know?
[00:51:00] So those, those things are really important.
[00:51:01] And with Hemlock, I want it to be about the love and about the expression and about all
[00:51:07] of that.
[00:51:07] And I don't want to have to sign contracts and, uh, and do tours and do, uh, tons of
[00:51:14] press.
[00:51:15] Um, because, because I want it to still, I want it to always be something that, that, uh,
[00:51:23] that gives to me, you know?
[00:51:25] And that's really, uh, I know that seems strange, but I think that's, you know, I'm also, I
[00:51:31] respect the artists who are like, I can just do this for myself.
[00:51:34] I don't always believe them.
[00:51:36] What do you mean I can do this for myself?
[00:51:39] Oh, making art for the sake of art.
[00:51:42] Yeah.
[00:51:42] Yeah.
[00:51:43] I'll like, I think there are people that really can do that.
[00:51:46] I think, uh, I think for me, what I found is, and this goes against kind of those early
[00:51:52] ideas and that, like, you know, making art for art's sake and how the sacrifice of that.
[00:51:57] But now I know that for my art to work and what my art is about, it is about people and
[00:52:04] it's about, it's about creating, uh, spaces for people to be in, you know?
[00:52:10] And that's not, that's, that's within those head spaces.
[00:52:13] It's also, you know, of course it is about my personal release and within art, there's
[00:52:18] always ego.
[00:52:19] There has to be ego.
[00:52:20] Um, or it's not honest, you know, not, not ego as necessarily a bad thing, but just there
[00:52:27] has to be the self, you know, the self is like kind of all there is to explore in art.
[00:52:35] Now, you know, if you can, uh, not necessarily, I should, I shouldn't make that blanket statement,
[00:52:41] but, but for me, um, my art isn't in my, in my music isn't complete until it gets to people.
[00:52:51] And, and I, I guess I'm, I'm even second guessing myself there cause I don't really like doing
[00:52:55] rap shows.
[00:52:56] Um, because it's just a different experience.
[00:52:59] It's, it's hard.
[00:53:01] You're still releasing it into the world though.
[00:53:03] It's still good.
[00:53:04] Yeah, totally.
[00:53:06] But with future islands, I feel like those songs I've always said they aren't complete
[00:53:10] until they're performed live, you know?
[00:53:14] And sometimes like those songs aren't done until they're, they've been played like a hundred
[00:53:18] times, you know, cause you really, you really find the truth of the songs in the reflection
[00:53:25] of the audience.
[00:53:26] You know, you find what, you know, it's just, you know, it's just the same thing of like,
[00:53:34] you can sit with yourself and analyze yourself and know everything that's wrong with you, but
[00:53:40] you don't make any progress in changing that until you tell someone else.
[00:53:44] And then they look at you with, with like pity, anger, disdain, frustration, curiosity.
[00:53:51] And then you're like, oh, that's how that feels.
[00:53:53] Or, you know, and then it gives you another level.
[00:53:55] So then you reflect, you know, I always talk about that accountability of, of like your,
[00:54:01] of, for me, my truth.
[00:54:03] And like, you know, I thought I knew what was wrong with me for years, but that didn't change.
[00:54:07] I was still repeating the same cycles.
[00:54:08] And then when I started to talk to somebody, it allowed me a mirror to see who I actually
[00:54:13] was and what I was actually doing.
[00:54:15] Let me, let me put this out there and you could shoot this down if this is totally wrong,
[00:54:18] but I, maybe a lot of it comes down to the words themselves from the standpoint of when
[00:54:24] you're rapping, it's literal.
[00:54:26] When you're singing these songs, maybe it's more metaphorical and therefore open to interpretation
[00:54:31] and really requires that kind of reflection from the audience.
[00:54:35] You actually, yeah, I think you're right.
[00:54:39] I had to, I had to break that one down.
[00:54:41] Well, no, I literally have a line in one of my, in a Hemlock song that says, you know,
[00:54:48] don't read between the lines, just read the fucking lines, you know?
[00:54:51] And that's asking, that's asking the, really for critics.
[00:54:55] It's like, you know, can you, you're like, don't try to understand what this means.
[00:55:01] I'm telling you a story.
[00:55:02] I'm like, listen to the story.
[00:55:04] I'm giving you everything.
[00:55:05] But, but yeah, within Future Islands, I, I want it to be much more open and I speak
[00:55:10] in a much more universal way to try to, to try to create a very, a broader picture for
[00:55:18] people to reflect within and find themselves in, to understand, you know, in the simpler
[00:55:23] ideas.
[00:55:26] So yeah.
[00:55:27] Yeah.
[00:55:27] I think you're right.
[00:55:29] I don't know what to do with that.
[00:55:31] Have you ever been over to a friend's house to eat and the food was just no good.
[00:55:36] I stand at the path of distress with intentions to address my intentions to impress where my
[00:55:43] righteousness went.
[00:55:44] I'm fighting this shit.
[00:55:45] The feeling that my demons keep.
[00:55:46] I don't think that there is a feeling that I'm looking at for people to suffer from another
[00:55:47] decision.