Episode 668: Buddy Bradley Returns (with Peter Bagge)

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 678, Peter Bagge Returns with Peter Bagge, RiYL, Brian Heater

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm talking to somebody is my granddaughter of Sylvie and you got this that's for me. Oh

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. I'll keep it work here. I'll keep it here. Thanks a lot

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: She's gonna come back and take this back. She's always giving me gifts and then taking them back at first

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I was mixed on the flashbacks and then as

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You continue reading it it dawns on you that each of the flashbacks is there to set up the current day story

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Yes

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Taking back. All right

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, another thing too that I kept with doing these

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Flashbacks with this new miniseries was I was having so much fun working with the character stinky

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I was laughing out loud at my old comics drawing stinky and I kept thinking why did I kill him off?

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: What the hell was I why did you kill him off? Well, it's just

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He was like he's based on

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people I know or have known

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Who just they spin out, you know, they don't they don't mature. They don't evolve. They just and it gets

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it reaches a point where it's not cute anymore. So I didn't you know if I had him aged away

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I had a buddy and Lisa age

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That it'd be like he'd be more tragic than funny because that's the type of person he is

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's who he's based on is people who

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Never grow out of that being some kind of a character, you know, there's some hyper manic character

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And it just doesn't age well

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So I and I didn't so I thought I'd do him a favor and the readers

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So favor and kill him off before he becomes too pathetic

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So it but again, it's like it's it was fun doing these

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Comics with him because it's going back to when he was young, you know

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Like one comic is even before buddy Bradley ever met him the one with the dynamite where he's the latchkey kid, you know

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's an opportunity to have almost like unrestrained id in the story

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. Yes

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is what he is and there was always a lot of things like, you know, it opens with when

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Buddy first met Lisa

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things that I did in the old comics

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Where I never addressed the backstory again because I don't do flashbacks

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: but again when I started working on this miniseries, I thought well, why don't I do a

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: comic about when they actually first met and this thing was like

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Just at some point I made this passing reference to the fact that Valerie and George of all people became a couple

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought I should do more about that. I should show how

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: They started hitting down that road

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you almost have to backward engineer that because they are

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So different and clearly like hate each other when they first meet right? But

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you know, it's

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny working with that character Valerie because in some ways

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: She's flawed

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But then I but also it's like oh, but I I like working her flaws make me laugh

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she's a control freak and with these flashbacks to I've tried to

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: To me that was clear with the old comics going way back when when I first started doing hate

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: How she was a control freak which I don't think other people it seemed like people did and even had a violent temper

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Which other people didn't pick up on?

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But I this time I want to drive that home

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but it also in my main concern when I figured I was going to really emphasize that with her is

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it would make her unlikable

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But she's to me she's still like well because that control freaky aspect of her makes me laugh as long as somebody makes you laugh

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Then all is forgiven. But yeah, like her and George is like

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: What an easy time she has controlling him. All she had to do is agree to be his girlfriend

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He couldn't believe he had a girlfriend. So

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I think maybe the disconnect and and maybe the reason why people didn't didn't quite

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Grasp it is because it's a really it's a hard line to walk tonally in the book where for example

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: there's that bit where

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Buddy's mom says stop strangling your sister, you know, which is a very like cartoony like Simpsons

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_03]: approach to it but then like

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: when buddy talks about having trauma from

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Valerie like there's there's something very real there

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but and also he says at the same time that at the time it was happening it didn't feel weird

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't he wasn't thinking what the hell it's only when he thinks back on it. Then he thinks what the hell but at the time

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was like convinced that he was the bad guy, you know back when they were dating

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He was convinced that whatever trouble, you know, mainly because Valerie would tell him that whatever trouble they were having was on him

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It was partly on him. He was still immature

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think he knows that he's a fuck-up too and everybody in his life is telling him he's a fuck-up right and

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and she was trying to turn him into somebody that he wasn't and he you shouldn't do that

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: She's trying to mold him, you know

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: so I don't know but again like it's I

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Was especially with the Valerie character was a bit of a

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Walk, you know, I did I wanted to make her stills make her likable and sympathetic

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: in a certain way, you know

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And I had even have a like when buddy is complaining about how woke she's gotten

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Lisa's telling him to shut up just because she's like look I

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like her she's my gal we're friends don't ruin that

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it that way. He's like, okay, you know to me that made perfect sense, too

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're even it even if might you have a good reason to find

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Valerie annoying

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Shut up

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Buddy is very much what we would call a troll now as evidenced by the the MAGA hat on the cover

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But also he he he pushes people's button

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he always did you know

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01]: He always pretty much did but not he doesn't make a point of it. It's not I mean, he's not a professional troll

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's not on he's not on Twitter

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So he's not going out of his way he just

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He just doesn't have much of the filter when he is with

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Talking to people face to face but you know, that's just that that's true almost all cartoon characters. That's the point of

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: making comics

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: What popular cartoon character?

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Does keep everything close to the chest they'd be boring you got to know what they're thinking

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You know or otherwise just have a lot of thought balloons, you know

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you suggesting that bug bunny isn't very introspective? Yes

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a moment in there where this is really fun

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I usually don't just like go into the specifics of books like this

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But I it's it's really fresh in mind and especially like having such a personal

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Having had a personal feeling and personal connection to these characters over the years and it is

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really interesting to reconnect with them in that way and there's a moment in the book where Lisa says

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, we turned out. All right, and you think you think to yourself. Yeah

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: They did in spite of everything they somehow

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Needed through right?

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, and

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: While I was doing this story the present-day stories because Lisa was very neurotic

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: she was

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Vaguely suicidal. She was a real nut back in the day, which she acknowledges

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but while I was doing this drawing them like right now

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought I was thinking when I did the math it's like oh their son would be an adult

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: When I draw their nuclear family, the Sun is now an adult he'd be in his early 20s and

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And that effect alone

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Made it impossible for me to make Lisa nutty. It's kind of like being a mom and

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Raising this boy who's now a man. That's what made her normal

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's still kind of goofy this she still has the same personality but

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Being a mom coat totally stabilized her gave her a focus and a purpose an undeniable focus and purpose

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and it's my mind too that that I was trying to

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Contrast that with when Buddy meets stinky's mom

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Was totally checked

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: when it came to reason still is totally checked out when it comes to her own flesh and blood and

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, but I wouldn't make a comic about her about stinky's mom. That wouldn't be very pleasant

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Tragic scene really? Yeah. Yeah

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, I

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Hope people find it plausible because I've hopefully you've met people like that. I've met people like that or who are just so I

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't don't really know what happened to my daughter

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But no well, but yeah

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It's I wanted to contrast that with the way Lisa was where it's like that that was her focus

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You know by default her focus was I've got this kid now

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And my life revolves around that and that made her saying that that is what made her stop being crazy

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Another you're saying that there is a sense when you think about it that she that Lisa could have gone the way of stinky's mom

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: She found this thing that she found a meaning in her life and that's what that's what kept her grounded

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that something that you can personally relate to?

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Not no not not really, you know

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You know

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Like my wife once we had a kid, of course our daughter became her focus prior to that

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01]: she had a career as a cook and and

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: That was her focus then you know

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So but so she wasn't coming unglued before she had a kid there wasn't some big change in her personality

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just priority shifted, you know

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'm sure that nobody's jumping to mind but I'm sure I've known people who've

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Whose were parenthood made them

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Stopped bouncing off the walls, you know, it did rain them in and of course tragically

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: There's also the opposite where being a parent has no effect and they're still bouncing off the walls

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have kids but my understanding and having friends who have kids and watching them is that it it really

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Recontextualizes your entire life in a pretty profound way. It seems

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah for me it was still a for me personally as opposed to my wife

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I was a cartoonist before I had a kid and I continued to be a cartoonist. So there always was that constant

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but fortunately for me my daughter who's married now and that was her daughter

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: They live really close to us practically walking distance where we are now so they're over here all the time

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So with this three-year-old you just saw come in the room. It really I feel so much like

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in a flashback

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: With still she's always coming into my studio

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was when my daughter was three it was the same exact thing so lots

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's I have to check myself to make sure I don't call her Hannah

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is my daughter's name because it's like I'm reliving everything but it's also profoundly different than having your own kids

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, it's less exhausting because then she goes home to her house

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So she doesn't wear me down that much as much as her own daughter did sounds like the process of I mean

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously we'll see when it comes out

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but I suspect that there's gonna be a lot of a lot of interest in it because it really it reminds me of

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_03]: The bands from the 90s who kept touring versus the bands from the 90s who stopped touring and then got back together and

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: People love reunion shows. Yeah, this is a reunion

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure. This is a reunion show

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you have to go away for a bit for people to really appreciate it. Yeah, of course, of course

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I like with hate annual I didn't go away, you know, it still is there and

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You know just got lots of shrugs. I guess doing those hate angles too

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit like, you know, you look there'll be a famous act again from the 80s the 90s whenever

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: especially the 80s and 90s and

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Then you look and you see whatever act it is. It's like oh jeez for the last 20 years

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: They've still regularly been putting out albums and you know

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_01]: They never chart

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you had no idea never heard a song from them

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But he's still like just out of hat

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So even if they sold millions and millions of copies back in the day now nobody is buying their well

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess somebody is but not many, you know, they still have the die-hard fans

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But so yeah, it makes you wonder maybe they would have been better off if they just stopped completely

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and then come back 20 years later. Maybe you can relate this I can certainly relate to this

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I have effectively been doing

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: More or less the same job since I was you know 20

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_03]: They've been doing

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: The same job since they were probably 15 in a lot of cases

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like what when this thing stops working like what do you do with your life? Right, right? Yeah

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's um

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: hardly day goes by that

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: That I haven't thought about doing something else for living especially there are certain times

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: The joke with me but it's true is when I'm getting fed up getting fed up with being a cartoonist

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: The person I always envy are delivery men

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: One reason it's partly because it's like I see them they come to my house

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But whether it's a mailman or Amazon delivery guy

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But also I noticed the only time I envy them is when the weather's nice out if the weather is hard

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It's pouring rain and the wind is blowing. It's just hell out there

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Then I don't think I wish I was a mailman

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's fun whether it was great and I'm just thinking I'm stuck inside and this guy's getting paid to walk around in the sun

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_01]: you know then I want his job, but but

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: What I was getting to though is

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I can't imagine

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Really? I can't imagine not being a cartoonist, you know

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the idea of not completely stop doing comics, it's

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Sort of inconceivable. It's like to stop eating, you know

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I would say that you have managed to successfully reinvent yourself

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_03]: In terms of the the work you've taken on over the years. Yeah. Yeah, well

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an opportunist. I've taken

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: opportunities have come my way and I've taken advantage of them and

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You know and I would made it work made it work for me anyway

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Not everything I've done has been a huge success

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: few few of the things I've done since hate have been a big success, but

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But I enjoy it all from I'm proud of everything that I've done

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I got no complaints all of the the nonfiction books that you've liked the Zora Neale Hurston book that you did

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that something that you're still?

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: actively interested in

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I stopped doing those full-length

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Biographical graphic novels

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Just because it's so much work, you know

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Those three I did with drawn and quarterly and they gave me a decent advance and

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: What most people think is a generous advance?

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But that money would all be spent in three months and I still have three years of work to do on it

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So it was it was really difficult just for that reason just financially

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: That like that was the toughest time I've ever had I

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Did it because I love doing those books

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I love this subject matter and I'm happy with the way they came out

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that was really tough money. That was really hard going

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But I still do biographical comics all the time for reason magazine. I still three or four times a year. I do

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Just these four page

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Biographical portraits

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Me and the editor will settle on somebody somebody that's that we both think

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Recent readers would find interesting and I'd like I'm about to do one on John Locke but

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But you know that it's they're just four pages and reason pays they pay well

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So that is totally worth my while and I'm enjoying doing those

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I still really very much enjoy doing biographical

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Comics, I would love to do tackle

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody for like a full-length comic a full-length graphic novel

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: by a graphical shrimp, but

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, it's just so much work the person I keep leaning towards is Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I was actually just about to suggest that although obviously it's you know

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_03]: different than the other

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_03]: books that you've done in that vein before but

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking at it now. So this is exactly ten years ago. I

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_03]: commissioned you to do a

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Murray Wilson

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a Murray Wilson over there. I think that that would be fantastic. And I think that there is

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_03]: There's so much interest now that people are really kind of understand what he went through

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the problem though is he's still alive and I'm not comfortable but with every biographical strip

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I've ever done I've never done one about somebody who's still alive

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the reasons is every sink when sometimes it'll be immediate

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever somebody passes away a lot of facts secrets stories about that person come out that were kept under wraps

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like there's an awful lot that I I would hate to do a biographical strip about say somebody like him

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And then after he passes away

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of what I've written might not have been true, you know, and there's a lot of other things

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know about

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently he has dementia now. So I don't think yeah

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was sorry. Do you know who Tom Kenny is? He's a sponge Bob. It's about guy

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, I was talking to him on the phone and he was on his way to

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Brian Wilson's wife passed away. So he was gonna go to Memorial for her and

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and I said yeah, and I read that I

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Read that Brian is starting to suffer from dementia and this is terrible

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But we both at the same time said but who can tell

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the thing you're talking about, you know the possibility of these things coming out about him and it's like well

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to imagine

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_03]: anything

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_03]: traumatic

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Coming out about Brian Wilson that we don't already know

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. Yeah, but still you never know it seems like it always happens

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So I now have a strong suspicion having spoken with you about it

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_03]: This very much is not going to be the last time that we see these characters. Oh

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Like again Eric Reynolds of Fandagraphics. He was very happy with the way it came out and he said you got to do more

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the moment nothing's jumping out at me. I can't really think of what's next

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So if I was going to do something else like this another miniseries

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be a while, you know

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not some I want to jump right on the world's had to kind of unravel for it to make for really good stories for

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_03]: These characters. Yeah

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that everybody's kind of an art tape in this book really brothers, you know firing off the the AK and his mom is

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Maga and everybody represents this

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_03]: this kind of

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_03]: This this character of the current American experience sure that's because everybody in America has become a character

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We've all turned ourselves into archetypes except for you and me we're still individuals

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Just everybody else