Transcript Episode 620: Jaime Wyatt

We're experimenting with the addition of episode transcriptions. Note: the audio is transcribed with AI, via Otter. 


Jaime Wyatt  0:00  
I have been home for like four or five nights? Five, I think five.

Brian Heater  0:17  
How long is this tour?

Jaime Wyatt  0:19  
Well, the tour was there was there were festival gigs. And then there were promo performances in New York City in Austin and in Dallas. And then impress in New York as well. And so, yeah, so it's just been very busy, busy, busy. And all my gear coming from tour is usually lands at my house. And then I'm like, and my bass player comes and helps me move it. And, but I did get my piano set back up, like pretty quick. This time, and I think ever really, that was important for my mental health.

Brian Heater  1:01  
When you say piano, you mean like piano piano,

Jaime Wyatt  1:04  
or the the keys, you know, a keyboard here that a run through a, an amp,

Brian Heater  1:10  
usually out is having that around, impact your mental health.

Jaime Wyatt  1:14  
Just, you know, the act of improv isn't, you know, the act of improv on an instrument is just, I think, I really believe in like how healing that is. And that relationship. So I value that time. And, and I think it helps me I really believe it's, you know, playing an instrument is healing, even if you're not good at it.

Brian Heater  1:38  
I assume that you're good at the piano at this point.

Jaime Wyatt  1:41  
I'm a good I'm a good songwriter. And I play piano well enough. And I got like, good, I have good rhythm. And like a drum and stuff. And I always have. So good rhythm, I can keep a pocket and mainly like, and I have just like simple licks that they just, they're enough, you know, I'm trying to expand upon those. And that's why I busted busted out the keyboard right away to stay in practice, and try and learn something. That's what that's what gets me all jazzed up learning.

Brian Heater  2:17  
I would assume that drums are the most cathartic of instruments

Jaime Wyatt  2:22  
drums are that's a great motion does a really good

Brian Heater  2:26  
you can hit it as hard as you possibly want.

Jaime Wyatt  2:29  
I figured out when I was a kid that if you slow down any piece of music, you could do it. And I figured that out like so I just would like my drummer left his drum kit at my mom's house and this one I was teenager probably for 15 or something. And, and then so I'd sit at the kit and I taught myself how to play like because you know how to stinky bait and do you know move arm move a leg different Shake a leg different you know?

Brian Heater  3:03  
I don't know if I have the capacity for that I walking and chewing gum. I'm well very coordinated person.

Jaime Wyatt  3:10  
I don't even know if I am but I can I can get by tell you

Brian Heater  3:16  
how often do you find yourself tripping over things in life? Like Like literally,

Jaime Wyatt  3:20  
you don't let I trip but I never fall. i Is that weird. But I because I'm tall. I'm tall. And I kind of have a gate where I like sometimes I do trip. But I never fall because I think because I grew up snowboarding skateboarding. So I'm like, I got some balance. But yeah, I'm tall. So it's like, you know, it's a lot to get around.

Brian Heater  3:48  
My initial thought would be that falling at all is not coordinated. But honestly, I think that the ability to save yourself from falling in the process of falling is actually like supersedes that it's actually more more coordinated.

Jaime Wyatt  4:02  
Perhaps. Yes, yes. Interesting thought. Mm hmm.

Brian Heater  4:08  
Yeah. Is the piano your go to?

Jaime Wyatt  4:10  
Well, it is lately. But no, my first instrument was guitar and guitar. That was my button. Oh, snap in my jacket. And but I Yeah, guitars was in my hand when I was like four or five. My dad played guitar. And and I grew up seeing him play guitar and sitting on a piano and like he was never formally taught either. So that's how I taught myself as well. And but but just seeing someone doing it, I think was enough of an imprint and I'm grateful for that. You know,

Brian Heater  4:48  
reading up on your history. I'm very curious. I don't know level is not the right word. But But where are your parents sort of respective lives in music We're because there's the very Interesting wrinkle to this that Bob Weir was hanging out at your house all the time. Oh, yeah. I don't

Jaime Wyatt  5:05  
know if it was all the time there. Sure, but enough to it. But yeah, you know, and I'm sure

Brian Heater  5:11  
more than he hung out in my house. How about that?

Jaime Wyatt  5:13  
I guess so. Yeah. See, I was I was really young. I was really young, my my sister's, remember, but I met him when I was older. In the 90s, they stayed in touch. And then Bob came up to Seattle to do some shows. And at one point we saw and I don't remember if it was that trip, but actually right before Jerry passed, I got to see Grateful Dead when I was I don't know what age I was. It was in Seattle Memorial Stadium, and I think 9495 Right. I'm not certain the year that Jerry died. I I do know his music very well. But I and I even read his you know, I was reading a Grateful Dead bio last year. But, but yeah, mostly knows music better, but

Brian Heater  6:03  
you're like a lifelong dead fan. I

Jaime Wyatt  6:07  
I really appreciate the dead. You know, it's different. It's like, I love the songs and some of the I'm particular about which Grateful Dead recordings I like to be you know, the the 80s live stuff is pretty solid. Yeah, yeah. Who knows why, but it could be related. I don't know. Like, whether they were doing okay or not, but, but there's certain recordings, you know, you got to you sit there when the magic ones so yeah,

Brian Heater  6:47  
yeah, that's what I was gonna say is maybe like, hopefully by that point in their lives, they had figured out their drugs a little bit more.

Jaime Wyatt  6:54  
Bob, Bob always stays in shape. And he's like, at least I you know, I follow him on Instagram. And I like read about him. We don't I'm not in touch or anything like that. But it was like, I just, I noticed that I was like, I'm really into like, staying active because just for mental health reasons. So I love following Bob weird seeing that, like an aging Rockstar is taking care of their body. And so just a side note on that, like mad respect, Bob Where's like, killing it? He's strong. He's like, doing stuff like his his workouts and stuff. It's so cool.

Brian Heater  7:35  
It's a fair point. Like I had had Nick Lowe on the show a while back and like he that's it to me. He's the best possible example of a rock star Aging Gracefully.

Jaime Wyatt  7:46  
Yeah, like, uh, you know, it's good to be it's good to be healthy. I mean, to yoga and don't drink coffee anymore. I can't. I gotta keep like adrenaline and check.

Brian Heater  8:00  
I quit coffee during the pandemic, and it was it was harder than stopping drinking. Alcohol for me.

Jaime Wyatt  8:08  
It's an it's really insidious, the way it impacts your mood. I found when you come come off of coffee. Like, I didn't realize how about for instance, today I didn't have a cup of tea. I always have either earl grey or yerba monta. That's caffeine. That's, you know, I didn't quit caffeine. Fair. Okay. Love the tea kettle. Love the teapot. And yeah, so I got to keep an a kettle in my room. Like when I traveled to England, and they always had a kettle in the bedroom and you making tea. So I love and I love English breakfast and Earl Grey, but

Brian Heater  8:46  
let me get strong there.

Jaime Wyatt  8:47  
Oh my god so strong. So today, I hadn't had a cup of tea. And then I went and had one I was like, Oh my God, but how about it was just like, oh, that's what was missing. It was like, great feeling of missing something.

Brian Heater  8:59  
I was definitely addicted to coffee. Yeah, what happened to me during the pandemic is you know, I live in New York I live in Queens and like a one bedroom. I went through some health stuff too but there was that like long stretch where he just like wasn't leaving the apartment. So I was getting up and like my ritual was was getting up and walking to the stove and I had like a little Moka Pot of making coffee on it and then at a certain point I realized that it was making like four of those a day,

Jaime Wyatt  9:27  
right? Yes. Yeah, it just gets to that I'm telling you I mean, I got off Oh, so here's the thing I got off alcohol six years ago and prior to that I had seven years and then I you know fell off when I was coming out of the closet and struggling there. But I got back on so it's the same thing when you I don't know if anyone has ever quit you know, anyone listening never quit out The whole but coffee is such a great replacement. You know, or lots of people quit alcohol but you know what I mean?

Brian Heater  10:09  
Coffee is like alcohol in that it is in that it's ritualistic and that it is like, again, like living in New York painkilling

Jaime Wyatt  10:17  
qualities to coffee. For body aches and stuff. I noticed that I think that's why the morning is so like getting used to not having so much of that is weird.

Brian Heater  10:29  
The other aspect, the other parallel between alcohol and coffee is that it's like a very social thing.

Jaime Wyatt  10:35  
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's super ritualistic communal. Yeah, I love that aspect of of tea just as well, though. So I'm lucky that I like that I kind of convinced myself a little too, you know, I can do that. And then I can cuz I'm like, Really, it's healthier the for the voice and, you know, sometimes acid reflux is unavoidable. So but if you can do a couple things to to avoid it. I know. That's good. So for me, I'm just trying to use my my voice a lot and saying,

Brian Heater  11:08  
was touring ever a struggle when you first gave up? Alcohol? As far as like, yeah, a big part of the job is like, I mean, you're, you're effectively in a bar every night.

Jaime Wyatt  11:20  
Yeah, I mean, I think my first time quitting that definitely because I was 21. And are 22 When I got out of jail, and, and so being out, that was hard. But this last time, you know, I'm having six years now, six years ago, it was like, I actually went on the road at four months clean. I don't know, I really had a staunch commitment. If that makes sense. I'm not going there again, and it will. And I had, you know, done some work around putting the pieces together, you know, therapy and things like that. So I actually went out on the road at four months clean, and I did great. And, you know, I started to find myself and like how to, you know, it's just about finding your yourself and your personality? And then you want to share that with others? And how, how comfortable, you know, what parts? How do we socialize again, learn that, learn that and do it again, of course. But you know, I'm a jokester. And I'm really grateful that that I'll always lean on that, like, just being silly. Try not to take myself so seriously. And, yeah, for my sanity, I think.

Brian Heater  12:48  
So you got out of jail, and you're like, I just need to do I need to do all the right things now?

Jaime Wyatt  12:53  
Yeah, yeah, I was scared shitless because I didn't want to go back. Like I had a, I would go back, I would go to prison, you know, if I violated and, you know, and what a great thing that was, for me really was being in jail. Well, no, just working in my favor that you know, to have a period of absence not to say that, by the way, there's lots of drugs in LA County. And so, you know, by the end of that stay, I was moved to a place where there wasn't drugs, you know what I mean? And then I was like, sort of had to come to Jesus quote, unquote, I'm not religious, but that would say, as it were, was like yes, I got to say as it were. So yeah, no, I I think it was a mentally shocking and probably a good way. And also some ways that I don't think like relationships with I don't need the justice system as a is very just, if we, if you will, I will. And so it wasn't so much about my experience. In fact, I reflected a lot on how it was more about learning about what how the the world and how the government works and how the do just you know, just how things work and that was my first that's my rude awakening to what the world really what we battle, right. Humanity and lack thereof. So that was eye opening for me and I think it took a lot of years to not just process that but then be like, oh, yeah, I guess being incarcerated and being treated like an inmate and yelled at and all that is not not cool. You know, being strip searched is really demoralizing. And I'm then I'm not even that prideful person. I'm like a chicks on mice. Like, oh, everything's fine, right? It's, but by looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah, there's total fucking violence. Question.

Brian Heater  15:00  
Well, that's the point. Right? That's the point is you're constantly monitored and

Jaime Wyatt  15:04  
the nuts not the point. Because in writing, it's supposed to be that they're just watching like in jail, you're supposed to be just, the officers supposed to just escort them to court and keep them fed and safe. While they're on trial. They're not even convicted yet. And the behavior towards the inmates is that of that they've done the con. Right. So what do you not like? That's in that scenario, you're not innocent. until proven guilty, you know what I mean? You're so you're, you're guilty. Right? You're in CAD, like they said, you know, if you're in County blues, you're you're you guilty. So I mean, I'm, I'm not saying I wasn't guilty, by the way. I robbed a drug dealer. And it didn't work out in my favor. And I'm bald, I'm a creative, I have that part of my brain going, I've been studying kind of it since all this, I've done a lot. I've done a lot of therapy and EMDR, and whatnot. And I stay very attentive to self care. Now, and there's been a lot of healing since it's all about, you know, today, staying grateful for what I have, which is a lot and, you know, transmitting all this experience into song, and into groove and lyric, and story, you know, and I have a lot of energy to share, if I can channel it, and I've been able to channel it, I think, in a very emotionally gratifying way for me, and now I see if people will find that emotionally gratifying. And that's the goal. But yeah,

Brian Heater  16:59  
I'm one of a lot of people who really who hit that wall during the pandemic, you know, that was like, that was my moment where I'm like, Okay, I need two years of putting off therapy. Because my mom was a therapist. This is the time Oh, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I'm sure a lot of people went through something similar. Sure. How during that period, I mean, how did you avoid getting really bleak

Jaime Wyatt  17:24  
depression? Or the bleakness? Yeah, I, I had to stay active. And you know, I'd have a lot of activities to distract me, which, you know, playing piano and Noah's composting and gardening and cooking, and then, you know, and then eventually, I think, and then playing, you know, concerts online, and I think I probably burned out and then I'd have some, some days where I just needed to, like, be in bed and cry. And then I just tried to keep growing. So I, like, did this ACA program and wasn't, was doing that pretty staunchly for a minute. And doing therapy and EMDR right at the beginning in the pandemic, and had stopped doing that in person. So, you have to stay busy, but then sometimes busy isn't always the answer to feelings. Like you got to am like, are you I'm real good at running. Real good at running from whatever, I don't want to feel too. So, like, mindful for myself.

Brian Heater  18:36  
I remember talking to anyone who would at least like, you know, discuss going through ACA, my dad was an ACA, it's very, really, yeah. What do you get out of that experience?

Jaime Wyatt  18:48  
Oh, I mean, it's, it's gnarly. So

Brian Heater  18:51  
we should explain what ACA is.

Jaime Wyatt  18:54  
adult children of alcoholics, and it's really more about or, or families of dysfunction is the subtitle. So, it's like a division, you know, I came in through 12 step and a while back and, and then got into Al Anon because I have this addiction in my family, and I was trying to support a loved one. And then I moved to, you know, I discovered there's this adult children of alcoholics. branch of 12 Step. And I liked it. I liked the literature a lot. It started like in the 1970s. And they were talking about somatic tension in the body equating to emotional experiences or historical and emotional experiences in the body. So they were like, as like, that's pretty early on now. Now, that's common knowledge. So I was impressed by that and I started going to the meetings and

Brian Heater  19:54  
you're talking about like

Jaime Wyatt  19:55  
trauma? Yes, trauma. emotional trauma is a physical sensation. In the body. And so they say that, you know, in science now, there may be the science or whatever psychology and all that, but but, you know, I found that to be true. So it's about like, you know, piecing together your story from your childhood and reclaiming sort of part of childhood, connecting with experiences and who you were, when you were young, and how that felt. And maybe actually kind of like, processing them, they're processing. Some of that moves it but it's also like somatic. It's, it's physical. That's why music is so healing, again, again. So again, I'm always motivated back to heal a little bit more, because I know it's going to help the art and it's going to help, I feel like I'm telling my story. And I want this time, I'll try to manifest some like, good, good joy, sweetness to some like, you know, manifesting love and whatnot and with this album, but with ACA, you said your dad was. So you learned about the program that we live a little bit?

Brian Heater  21:20  
I little bit? I never really, I don't know a lot about it.

Jaime Wyatt  21:24  
Yeah, it's really cool. But it can be really hard. Because a lot of sometimes people have, you know, everybody has different traumas. And there's, you know, so I definitely had to back away a little from it, at one point to be like, oh, like, there's, you know, okay, I can go in deeper at a different time in my life. Because, you, I think you want to do these things safely and slowly, like, when the body tells you, right, but even having a conversation with the body was like, not something I ever learned. And so I had a lot of stress in my childhood and, and so I just learned how to disassociate as a young person, which is, it became is like my superpower. And that I can create music there. And I have, there's words there, and I got into writing and knew that I could channel if I had read enough for this that I could get, you know, like it use it. But, but to be a whole person, and to keep evolving, and, you know, coming into my own and being more confident whatnot, I get to know what's kind of in there, and I want to have a relationship with my with my body and no, in my experience as well and have some emotional intelligence. That's the bottom line.

Brian Heater  22:49  
Yeah, I mean, you strike me as a pretty confident person. Yeah, I can put on

Jaime Wyatt  22:53  
is it all a lie? Oh, no, I have some real confidence I do. I think it's just, I have this, like, I have like a message. I've always felt that way since I was a kid, like I have, I just have things to write about, and that I serve a purpose and I write would observe not because I'm not just telling my own story. I'm trying to tell the story of the collective. And I've always believed in that. But so I that is literally my one. confident they had really good music.

Brian Heater  23:33  
That's a good thing to be confident. And when you're a musician.

Jaime Wyatt  23:37  
Yeah. Well, I'm good at making the music. It's not even like that I shred it's like, I can write. And, and. Yeah, so. But that helps, that helps with, it does create some confidence, but but that's competence is a journey. I think, as a queer person, it's a different kind of journey. So no, but it's kind of like about embodying so I was told in not so many ways, by society by, you know, just family and everyone because nobody knew any better, right? But they would tell me like my mannerisms. Were not this or that, right? Because I'm like, I'm like, both like, uh, you know, I'm feminine and masculine qualities. So I was like, good at sports and very, I could. I don't know, I guess that's the only thing it's medicine. I'm good at sport. I was skateboarding stuff I was like. So I think that coming out is a process that began a few years back now several several years back now. And it's process so I feel more comfortable. Like being my true self and whatever like oddness that might entail just an Air sign, if you will. So had McLeod's but also like, you know, gender expression, right specifically done anything. It's not linear and never really never really was naturally to be that way. I think we assimilated these behaviors to sit. Yeah, to fit into that narrative. And it was cute, right? They It was cute. But no, that's fine. That's there's joy in that. But like, what I'm saying is like, it doesn't matter who expresses what, femininity or masculinity, right? It shouldn't matter who and what, you know,

Brian Heater  25:54  
you said it's a process. But again, you know, again, it's been a number of years, but you you still feel like, you're on that journey of coming out?

Jaime Wyatt  26:02  
Yeah. Oh, yeah. For my to myself, probably, you know, there's so much that I don't know about myself. So, but at least by way of discovering my, my sexuality and my true identities and stuff, like, like, I've been able to be open to growing. You know, that's, that's cool. Um, with that,

Brian Heater  26:30  
obviously, don't don't know what's going on in your head. But it doesn't strike me that there's any like, there's, there's at least there's not a lot of obvious lingering shame around it, if there ever was.

Jaime Wyatt  26:41  
No, no. But you know what, it's insidious. Sometimes it creeps into interaction interactions and intimate relationships, actually. And it's something I've had to just work on. I literally have. I mean, probably a couple weeks ago, I think, like, a couple of weeks ago, I was having a shame thing, you know what I mean? It's just, it's got to pass through, it's got to just pass through the body, I think. And so, but, ya know, it's still, there's still there, I think it's, it just takes years to heal again, like for the body to heal and for the body to complete experiences, you know, both emotionally and physically, that occur in their life, right? The things that have occurred in my life, I need to understand physically and emotionally and spiritually and, and learn and grow and try and be better to myself and to others. So to be more true to myself is the goal. And yeah, it's, it is a discovery process. Still Still, but in a good way.

Brian Heater  27:57  
It seems like a maybe an aspect of coming out that people don't talk about enough that you can logically understand that there's nothing wrong with it, but but there's still, you know, decades of indoctrination to work.

Jaime Wyatt  28:11  
Yes, it's decades of being. Having people like even even to once you come out now, there's like, you have the experience of being gay bashed. So then you got that. Then you got like, I'm looking back at my childhood and the way everybody spoke was so homophobic like that. Yeah, just takes time at the shed those kinds of experiences. Right. Because they happen. And then, but yeah, just years and years of Yeah, I think, you know, people not wanting to talk about it. Like when people will say, Oh, I don't want to, I don't want to talk about it. You're like, what? Why? Like, that's just who I am.

Brian Heater  29:08  
That was that a reaction that you had when he first came out from people? Yeah. Yeah.

Jaime Wyatt  29:13  
Well, I had that feeling that they were so uncomfortable. Like, that's curious. That's curious. I had you know what I mean? Again, I don't focus on the bed. But if I deny that it's there. I'm not growing, like denying the existence of something does not make, you know, make me immune to the problem, or the results of the experience.

Brian Heater  29:46  
I think there's a lot of people that you'll encounter in life who like, consider themselves progressive and have progressive ideas, but when it really comes down to it,

Jaime Wyatt  29:54  
right. Emotional Intelligence Since again, a lot of people are just if they can be sheltered in different ways, and they shelter themselves, but what they don't realize is that without having being communicative and open is proven to be more effective in relationships, you know, in every way,

Brian Heater  30:27  
I'm asking you these questions from a very from a very privileged position. And I completely understand that. But you know, when you say, well, in the six years that you've been out that you've experienced gay bashing, like, it is something that is surprising to me.

Jaime Wyatt  30:41  
Well, it shouldn't be.

Brian Heater  30:42  
I know, I know that, you know, it's one of those things like I understand that implicitly, but

Jaime Wyatt  30:46  
information is still you know, we still, you know, that's why it's important to be out, I think, invisible. Like, perhaps if you were to meet a gay person that you love, or you heard the music, you know, maybe that would help I just to change hearts, is to change minds, I think. Because, yeah, there's still, there's still a lot of backwards thinking. Things that, you know, really, Trump's that have fired a lot of white supremacy and just like craziness in this country. So it's, it's heated. Definitely. And I see the see that, but I again, I don't want to live my life in fear. And I am very aware for because of I've already lived a lot of life. So I'm very aware of my situations. And as a woman, I have to be

Brian Heater  31:56  
just aware of your surroundings. Yeah, yeah. You

Jaime Wyatt  31:59  
do you have to be aware as Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Brian Heater  32:03  
You alluded a little bit to the positivity and the and something that struck me on, in particular, the first song on this new album. I mean, it's a it's like, a celebratory song about a really kind of a giant bummer. Yeah. But song World Wars world worth keeping? Yeah.

Jaime Wyatt  32:25  
Yeah, that's an accurate depiction. Yeah, it is, it's like, you know, just do it, for the goodness, do it for that little bit, find. Try a little harder, maybe. But it's also like, hopeful that we can do it. And, you know, save the planet, as I was alluding, or, was also trying to save a relationship simultaneously. So I believe that's where the lyric came from. Sort of that pleading, I was like, take, take a look around you. But yeah, it's, it's about trying to save the planet, or at least advocating for just talking about it at all. But, you know, it's not going away. And I grew up in Pacific Northwest. So I learned a little bit, I was like, learning about the planet, about climate change when I was really young, like young. And so I've always felt passionate about the environment and how, you know, what we can do to make it better, but now, it's almost like, We cannot look the other way, because we've got hurricanes this way. And that and floods and fires and annihilating civilization. But, you know, it's an outside in the song, but it's, you know, billionaires could really alleviate their footprint if they want it to.

Brian Heater  34:15  
But that's not how you get to be a billionaire. Well, you don't get to be a billionaire, but helping people.

Jaime Wyatt  34:21  
I mean, everybody got to pay taxes, but

Brian Heater  34:26  
you'd be surprised. You're that rich. Yeah.

Jaime Wyatt  34:30  
Well, but the footprint that they leave is detrimental. And then they're like, Hey, don't don't use plastic straws and you're like, wait, what? You know, so but at least we've gone to electric cars into that into that you know, there's some cool coalition's that Robert Downey Jr. Works with and stuff that I've sort of been, I was researching when I was writing the song and when I was a kid afterwards, but

Brian Heater  35:02  
I want to pull on the thread a little bit of something you said of use a phrase can't look the other way, in reference to Yeah, I mean, like, obviously, the weather is a lot different than it was five or 10 years ago, and it will continue. Yeah. But, but that's also another parallel to trying to save a relationship, that you can look the other way.

Jaime Wyatt  35:24  
I believe that's, yeah.

Brian Heater  35:31  
In terms of confronting, you know, like, because because, I mean, I found that in relationships, too.

Jaime Wyatt  35:37  
zactly. That's it. That's, thank you. I had to think on that. But that's, it feels true. Both confronting the relationship and confronting larger issues, you know, and it's something that I was, I, like, always go to different dictionaries. And I've looked up a world at one point. And that means, like, there's a lot of different worlds, right. And that means community, too. You know, and I feel that and so I wanted to make the lyrics broad enough that they could, you know, they can incorporate. I mean, they're kind of specific, but there's a lot of emotional bits about the song. So I'm hoping, you know, there's multiple applications for people.

Brian Heater  36:27  
I was reading some interviews with you earlier on, and you know, you were talking about some of the songs being love songs, but I don't know, I guess, emotionally, where are you at versus where you were when you started recording the record?

Jaime Wyatt  36:43  
I'm way better. That's good. Well, you know, that turns out making an album is very cathartic and healing, but but also gone through a breakup. And I think that really helped to put some, yeah, give some peace to that, to that relationship. You know, it's nice, because, in situations, you know, like, that would greet with, there's grief and loss. You know, I also lost a friend that I wrote that somebody you know, a song maybe to talking about, you know, lost a lover and a friend, it's, it's, sometimes song is the only way to like, make sense of those emotions or dance. If you're a dancer, there's no other way to express that grief.

Brian Heater  37:38  
I do want to try to end on a hopeful note. And yeah, we're talking you're talking a little bit about hopefulness. Beautiful art is

Jaime Wyatt  37:45  
made the Bryan's like that's, that's the bittersweet man. And

Brian Heater  37:51  
you were talking about a lot of like, you know, how your music is coming out of this sort of positive place? Like, it is it is. But you know, I think that there's a lot of people who, like, there's a lot of people who assume that you have to really be going through shit in order to make good art.

Jaime Wyatt  38:09  
Oh, right. No, you don't have to be killing yourself anymore. turns up, turns out, you know, so. So yeah, I'm more like, just trying to alleviate back pain and like, do enough yoga, and drink a lot of water. A little neurotic, but working on it. But the music has been again, it's the medicine. It's like it's so it's not just the words, it's times the words and the group even. I mean, there's always been group involved. My last record was heavily group involved. But this one is really cool on Adrian Posadas touch on the production is chef's kiss. Yeah, groovy.

Brian Heater  38:55  
Listen, I'm dealing with a herniated disc right now. And it really like puts things into perspective when you've got some some of that back pain as far as like mortality and other people's struggles. Like,

Jaime Wyatt  39:07  
I just sat up straighter when you said that was like, Oh, I don't want to feel it tomorrow. Who you know, like are just, you know, traveling to that's travel back. Yeah, so I'm really trying to keep up with that. And be good to myself.

You know, why not? It's um, it's cool. It's almost like when you just you're like, Okay, I've struggled for a really long time. I struggled. I struggled but I don't. I don't

have to struggle as much. Now. There are times do you seem happy? Let go. Yeah, absolutely. I am. I have a lot of fun. So, and that's, that's new. That's like a part of the journey. So it's good. small ball back roads that back Matthew raining years to three. Maybe the folks do this generation that not you